regiments opposite british

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crh
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regiments opposite british

#1

Post by crh » 15 Apr 2014, 16:36

Hello,

I am trying to find out something about some German regiments which were opposite my ancestors regiment on 27th May 1918 at Chemins Des Dames , I understand the German Order of Battle was the 5th Garde Division Attack Division, the three regiments of which were; 3rd Garde Grenadiers (Queen Elisabeth Regiment) 3rd Foot Garde and 20th Reserve Regiment.

Can anyone tell me about these regiments. Were the Garde regiments elite regiments and what is meant by "attack" divisions?.

Thank you.

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Ruhrpottpreusse
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Re: regiments opposite british

#2

Post by Ruhrpottpreusse » 15 Apr 2014, 18:54

Hello!
The 5.Garde-Division was rated as a first-class division.
The both active regiments came from Berlin. They were set-up 1860, fought 1864 against Denmark, 1866 against Austria and 70/71 aginst France. The 20th Res.Rgt was set-up in Berlin too (2.8.1914).
For that battle, all "spoiled" british tank-detachments (Sturmpanzer-Kraftwagen-Abteilungen-Beute) were under command of the 7th army (Detachements 11, 12, 13 and 14 - all with british Mk.IV)
The 5th Garde-Division belonged to the Gruppe v. Conta (10., 28., 5.Garde-Div.). Each enemy-artillery was eliminated, so the 5th.Garde-Div. had a "free-field" beyond them. The advanced so fast, that the tanks could not follow...
At 8pm the division reached the south-bank of the river Vesle, after heavy fights at Baslieux. Near Magneux they conquered an enemy air-field and captured some airplanes, al lot of cars and trucks and fuel. They won more than 20km!
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crh
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Re: regiments opposite british

#3

Post by crh » 17 Apr 2014, 20:16

Thank you sir, your reply is much appreciated.

We often study our ancestors regiments but so often do not think about the German regiments .

Have a good Easter.

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Ruhrpottpreusse
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Re: regiments opposite british

#4

Post by Ruhrpottpreusse » 18 Apr 2014, 08:42

Hello!
Well, that´s right. The german recordings often show detailled german units, but the opponent is shown on a divisional level only.

Ken S.
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Re: regiments opposite british

#5

Post by Ken S. » 19 Apr 2014, 13:34

I believe it was the active, not reserve, Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 20.

Both the 3. Garde-Regt. z. F. and Garde-Gren.-Regt. Nr. 3 are fairly well documented (in German).

Garde-Feldartillerie-Regiment Nr. 4 was also part of the 5. Garde-Inf.-Div. Long ago someone identified my maternal grandfather's uniform as belonging to that regiment, but claimed it was a "pre-war uniform" and wouldn't accept that my grandfather was born in 1899. So it's still yet to be determined whether he was ever a member of the regiment. Even if he was, he likely would have reached the front in the last few months of the war -- if at all. Whatever the case, I still decided to obtain a copy of the regimental history. If you are interested, I can take a look to see what it records for that day.

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Ruhrpottpreusse
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Re: regiments opposite british

#6

Post by Ruhrpottpreusse » 19 Apr 2014, 14:11

Hi Ken!
You´re right! I have two different sources. The american sources (history of the 251 divisions) mentioned the 20th res.Rgt, but the german recordings mentioned the active regiment.

crh
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Re: regiments opposite british

#7

Post by crh » 22 Apr 2014, 18:07

Ken S. wrote:I believe it was the active, not reserve, Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 20.

Both the 3. Garde-Regt. z. F. and Garde-Gren.-Regt. Nr. 3 are fairly well documented (in German).

Garde-Feldartillerie-Regiment Nr. 4 was also part of the 5. Garde-Inf.-Div. Long ago someone identified my maternal grandfather's uniform as belonging to that regiment, but claimed it was a "pre-war uniform" and wouldn't accept that my grandfather was born in 1899. So it's still yet to be determined whether he was ever a member of the regiment. Even if he was, he likely would have reached the front in the last few months of the war -- if at all. Whatever the case, I still decided to obtain a copy of the regimental history. If you are interested, I can take a look to see what it records for that day.
Thant would be wonderful!, I would love any accounts you have for that day, we so often do not hear from the German side and so much is still not translated into English.

Thank you.

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Re: regiments opposite british

#8

Post by Latze » 25 Apr 2014, 01:00

crh wrote: Were the Garde regiments elite regiments and what is meant by "attack" divisions?.
Before the German offensives in 1918 an attempt was made to bring all divisions up to levels of equipment in accordance with the needs for mobile warfare (and existing regulations). As the number of healthy horses was found to be to low only certain divisions were brought up to standard (attack divisions/Angriffsdivisionen) while all others had to make do with various levels of horses and equipment (static divisions/Stellungsdivisionen).

Were the Prussian guards elite regiments? Very good question - they earned a rather large share of medals late in the war, had very good cadre because they were able to pick the cream of the ORs and NCOs pre-war/early war and certainly received more attention from the high command then some other formations. Still in my view I would not consider them elite units per se but just above average. The elite title should go to the Sturmbataillone and maybe the Alpenkorps.

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Re: regiments opposite british

#9

Post by Ken S. » 10 May 2014, 18:19

May 27 is covered in pages 241 to 248 of the 4. Garde-Feldartillerie history. Some of it is excerpts from Garde-Gren. Nr. 3's history. I will try to get the chapter transcribed in the next few days.

crh
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Re: regiments opposite british

#10

Post by crh » 15 May 2014, 21:03

Thank you, much appreciated.

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