Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

[Chris Dale]

Hi Holger,

We believe from British records that Bob found that this "Bagamojo" gun with its shield went to London. This seems to be confirmed by examining scratch marks on the barrel in photos from Bagamojo and London.

The Mombasa gun we believe to be made up of Wenig's Mahiwa gun barrel with parts of the carriage from Masasi. We have photos from Sgt Southern's collection showing the parts of the two guns being collected. The 1918 Dar Es Salaam photos show two of the 10.5cm guns- one on a Dar carriage (we believe that to be the Mkyuni gun) and another on a Krupp carriage without a shield. This gun has the same unique fault as the Mombasa gun- the left wheel is on the wrong way around. I think it is more likely that this mistake was done by the British reassembling the two guns after the war than in wartime under the supervision of a German naval officer.

We can't be 100% certain but the evidence points that way.

Very good point on the Kenya Gazette however! Thank you for that tip...

Cheers
Chris

[Cristiano de S.O Campos]

About Königsberg survivors, is difficult distinguish who was the ship crewmember, remember the Crew of SMS Möwe ans SMS Planet mixed with Schutztruppe too, and th other crews of merchant ships stranded in East Africa...

My old topic about crew of SMS Planet: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 3&t=139876

here some survivors, officers...
http://www.u-boot-net.de/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2128
1) Unter welchem Dienstgrad sie bei der Schutztruppe geführt wurden.
2) Welchen Dienstgrad sie durch Beförderung aus der Heimat zwischenzeitlich offiziell innehatten.
3) Welchen Dienstgrad sie später nach dem Krieg noch erhielten.

Anbei mal eine Aufstellung der kompletten Namen mit Dienstgrad unter welchem sie bei der Schutztruppe geführt wurden:
Korvettenkapitän Gustav Zimmer (Kdt. der “Möwe“)
Kapitänleutnant a. D. Oskar Kendrick (war bei Kriegsbeginn Pflanzungsbesitzer in DOA)
Kapitänleutnant d.R. Ferdinand Jantzen (DOA-Linie “Feldmarschall“)
Oberleutnant zur See Moritz Horn (Wachoffizier auf der “Möwe“)
Leutnant zur See Job Odebrecht (Adjutant auf der “Möwe“)
Oberleutnant zur See Karl Freund (Wachoffizier auf der “Königsberg“)
Oberleutnant zur See Beckmann (Königsberg) (Ist mir nicht bekannt. Vielleicht meinst du diesen?)
Marine Ingenieur Walter Bockmann (II. Ing. auf der “Königsberg“)
Leutnant zur See Walter Rosenthal (Ablösungstransport der “Planet“ / Wachoffz. auf der “Königsberg“)
Oberleutnant zur See Gotthold Brocks (Ablösungstransport der Planet / Wachoffz. auf der “Königsberg“)
Oberleutnant zur See d.R. Theodor Siebel (Kapitän bei DOA-Linie / Kdt. der “Götzen“)
Leutnant zur See d.R. Paul Ungerer (Offz. bei DOA-Linie / Kdt. der „“Kingani“ und “Hermann v. Wissmann“)
Leutnant zur See d.R. Ernst Junge (Offz. bei DOA-Linie / Kdt. der “Kingani“)

Folgende Offiziere gehörten ebenfalls noch zur Abteilung Möwe, auch wenn sie dort nicht so häufig in Erscheinung traten.
Kapitänleutnant Fritz Schreiber (I. Offz. “Möwe“)
Leutnant zur See d.R. Walter Soete (Offz. bei DOA-Linie)
Kapitänleutnant d.Sw. I Günther Forstmann (war bei Kriegsbeginn Pflanzungsbesitzer in DOA)
Oberleutnant zur See d.Sw. I Konrad v. Falkenhausen (war bei Kriegsbeginn Pflanzungsbesitzer in DOA)

Die “Adjutant“ wurde am 15. Juli 1916 in Kigoma durch Ausglühen unbrauchbar gemacht, noch bevor der Zusammenbau vollendet war.

[Chris Dale]

Thanks Cristiano, that's great information!

Cheers
Chris

[Chris Dale]

Kallag has just posted a new film of the Goetzen/Liemba on a another thread in this forum, well worth seeing with photos of both Koenigsberg guns on the ship (10.5cm and 8.8cm).
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 9#p1907679



Cheers
Chris

[CPT Bob]

Holger has clearly identified Vizesteuermann d. R. Edel in the Götzen photograph. I contend that the other officer in the photo, as well as one of the officers in the photo of the gang hauling the gun barrel up the hill, is Oberleutnant Siebel.
What do you think?

[Chris Dale]

Good work Bob, I think you may be right on that being him looking into the scope in the Goetzen gun photo. I'm not so sure on the other one of the Kigoma gun being dragged into place. The Kigoma Elephant foot gun was a different gun from the Gotezen gun wasn't it? Also the tunics are different. In the first two photos a naval khaki tunic is worn (with plain pockets) and in the Kigoma photo it looks like a Schutztruppe tunic (with pleated pockets). He may of course have had two tunics...

Cheers
Chris

[Kallag]

This is good work Bob.

I have a question please. Does any of the Forum members know exactly where on the hill above Kigoma the "elephant foot" gun was established?

Are there any indications of where that position might be today....was the gun set up at an existing military facility or was it simply at a good vantage point on top of the hill?

Is it correct to assume that the gun being dragged up the hill at Kigoma is a second Konigsberg gun which is not the gun shown in the pictures on the foredeck of the Gotzen ?

I am not sure whether the following article has been mentioned before but there are some fantastic facts given here........

http://www.run-liemba.de/sites/default/ ... 014._0.pdf

Cheers
Kallag

[CPT Bob]

The 10.5cm gun had a far greater range than any other gun on the lake; therefore, there would not have been any tactical reason to haul all that junk any further than the top of the nearest hill. The photograph shows the gun being hauled in a southerly direction. The hilltop in the background looks like a good spot to me. The satellite photo of that location shows a square building with a smaller circular structure next to it. That is where I would ask a volunteer to go and look.

[Chris Dale]

Good thinking, Bob. I've just had a look on Google Maps satellite photos to check we're thinking the same spot.

Is this the circular construction you're thinking with a black dot in the middle possibly being the pivot mount?

This is the view with the railway taken into account. In this view our black dot is in the very top left. It does seem to tally with the photo and the hill you spotted!

Cheers
Chris

[danebrog]

The position marked by Bob was a small redoubt at "Kigomaberg". This is shown on an old aerial recon picture*
Exact location for the gun was at "Bangwe Point" (Elefantenfuss) approx LAT -4.900/ LONG +29.597, roundabout 2.5 km SW of Kigoma
From this small "Peninsula" you will control the entire surroundings far into the Lake - absolutely worth the effort to haul the gun there (even in view of the numerous porters who did the real work)

*http://s422.photobucket.com/user/chabre ... 8.jpg.html

[Chris Dale]

Ah, I see where you're looking at, as you say a larger peninsular SW of Kigoma, marked here as Bangwe Point past our original thought, which is at the top of this map-

kigoma map 3.jpg (62.05 KiB) Viewed 2641 times

Looking at this peninsular, there doesn't seem to be much in the way of man-made structures, but two objects in the centre and centre left of this photo look curious-

kigoma map 4.jpg (82.22 KiB) Viewed 2641 times

On close up, I can't be certain-

kigoma map 5.jpg (61.78 KiB) Viewed 2641 times

What are your thoughts, gentlemen?

Cheers
Chris

[CPT Bob]

How true; if I was not the man pulling the rope, the “open area” located in the vicinity of Lat -04.90936 / Long +29.60738 would have been an excellent site.

[Kallag]

Michael Berg wrote
"When, in spring 1916, the Belgians advanced to the Central Line railway, the
commander of the western troops, General Wahle, first decided to defend Kigoma against
the Belgians. For this reason a fortress (redoubt) was established on Karamtwaye Hill
(German name: Kigomaberg; Belgian name: Kabondo) between Kigoma and Bangwe Point.
Its troops were detailed to hold up the Belgians for as long as possible. The
Goetzen was also anchored in the bay under the hill."

And his footnote 77 read,
" Kurt Assmann: Der Krieg zur See 1914-1918, p. 261 f.; Wilhelm Arning: Vier Jahre Weltkrieg in Deutsch-
Ostafrika, p. 233 f. Author's note: Traces of the communication trenches and gun emplacements are still visible
from the air to this day via Google Earth (04° 53' 58" S, 029° 36' 52" E)."

Kallag

[danebrog]

Tanzania: With Zanzibar, Pemba and Mafia
by Philip Briggs/2009

https://books.google.de/books?id=SvZq4- ... ma&f=false

Kallags mentioned position is near the "Hilltop Hotel"
The book says the gun emplacement should be there, too?

[danebrog]

Aerial recon photography taken by Belgian aviators around July 1916

here marked as "Kabondo redoubt"


same picture in "hi-res"