Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

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CPT Bob
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#211

Post by CPT Bob » 01 May 2014, 02:49

I assume that everything was painted a uniform German Navy Grey (?) when it was originally mounted aboard the SMS Konigsberg. If the paint on the barrel burned or blistered during firing, as soon as practical afterwards, the Chief Petty Officer would make the crew strip, repaint and “make ready” the gun. Cleaning, greasing and spot-painting were part of routine maintenance. It is the “Military” way. In a static gun emplacement, eventually the Chief would have the crew paint part, if not all, of the gun using whatever color paint was available.

The “DAR carriages” appear to all be painted a similar color; I will call it “DAR Khaki”. If you add Yellow to the “color of the Pretoria gun” (a very common color) you will get “Dark Khaki”. If you add White to the mix and you get “Light Khaki”. Throw in a little green and you get “Olive Drab”.

Onboard the Goetzen, the gun and turret would have received a fresh coat of paint soon after being mounted. The hull and stack were Black. The rails, etc., were probably White or Grey. The photo of the Goetzen shows that the turret appears similar in color to the hull and stack, and that it contrasts sharply to the railing. Black would look very “Menacing” (Bad Ass!), indeed! I contend that the barrel and turret were painted the same color, as that was the standard Navy practice at that time. We do agree that the barrel was later mounted on a DAR carriage and captured by the Belgians at Kolowege, where it had “DAR Khaki” paint.

The remains of the turret in the gun emplacement at Kigoma appear to show that it was painted “white” (?) after it was assembled on site. Was it the strategic plan to place a big white box on top of a cleared hill so that it could be seen from miles away? (If I recall, a “rough-estimate” is at about 100 meters above the water, you can see about 20 miles to the horizon.) The range of the 10.5cm gun was about 7.5 miles. (If you can see me, then you know I can see you.) You only have a little gun, so you stay home. (Ha!)

The irregular lines on the turret at Tanga do suggest camouflage.

The transportable, platform-mounted “Kahe gun” appears very “light”. It may have retained its original Navy paint, or it could easily be custom-blended version of “DAR Khaki”.

I contend that the Krupp carriages arrived with factory-applied, standard German Army “grey” (?) paint. The wheels would have needed repainting after the tread was “widened”. It is just as likely that another batch of “DAR Khaki” was mixed for the occasion.
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CPT Bob
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#212

Post by CPT Bob » 01 May 2014, 14:21

Regardless of the color of the stack and railings, I still think the turret was uniformly painted Black; not Grey or two-toned.
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danebrog
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#213

Post by danebrog » 01 May 2014, 18:02

Hi Bob
you´re currently right, but the guns in black paint on the contemporary pictures all showing the dummy gun. Will send some other pictures for further studies to you a.s.a.p
best regards
Olli

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danebrog
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#214

Post by danebrog » 05 May 2014, 14:27

Hi Bob
some material from my archive
first series shows Goetzen with dummy armament, second series with real gun. You will easily rcognize the slight differences like the platform at the foremast, different proportions of the gun shield, funnel extension, a.s.o.
"Your" picture is widely published, but no fake as it shows instead simply the ship with the dummy armament ;-)

The first three pics showing the steamer with the dummy armament. (click pictures for full size)
01
Image
02
Image
03
Image
04
Image

To the real armed version there are some differences:
In comparison of 01/02/03 with 04 you will recognize the platform at the foremast. The device mounted on the platform could be a searchlight. This would make some sense as the platform is mounted far too low for some kind of observation post.
The proportions of the gun shields are clearly different, also the colours.
Another detail is the raised funnel. The origins of this modification are total unknown to me. Eventually this should prevent any distraction of sight from smoke
Both pictures (03 and 04) were taken at the same location from slight different angles. The buildings in the background on the small hill match perfectly.

Otherwise pictures 05 and 06 reveal the gun was sometimes painted in Navy pale grey and for another time in some darker colour.
05
Image
06
Image
Curiously gun 06 looks as it has no flange, not entirely sure if this is caused from the perspective

eagerly expecting your thoughts and observations ;-)
Olli

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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#215

Post by CPT Bob » 06 May 2014, 16:31

The platform seen in photos #'s 04-06 probably had some type of a fixed Plotting Board and removable "optics". (NATO artillery translation: the "Fire Direction Center")
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Chris Dale
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#216

Post by Chris Dale » 07 May 2014, 12:02

Interesting thoughts on the paints and Goetzen gun, guys. Bob's description of the practicalities makes sense and Olli, I didn't realise that so many Goetzen photos showed the fake gun... always good to learn!

Here's another discussion starter. How many survivors of the SMS Königsberg were there?

I've read in a few places that only 15 of the SMS Königsberg crew (including Looff) made it back to Germany alive. For example here "After nearly five years of naval battles, infantry combat, guerilla warfare, tropical disease and misery the Konigsberg’s 322-man crew was reduced to only 15 including the unsinkable Captain Looff and Oberleutnant Wenig (now with a prosthetic foot)." at https://suite.io/christopher-eger/2pxg27m.

Out of a crew of around 300 that's a massive 95% casualty rate. To put that into perspective, HMS Pegasus (sunk by the Konigsberg) had a 15% casualty rate, the Emden and even the Titanic had only 60% casualty rates.
I've always doubted that Königsberg survivor figure.

When we look at the list of the final 155 Germans that laid down their weapons in East Africa in November 1918, there are 36 with naval rank. (From the list by Fritz Oberhoffer. Leipzig 1stJune 1921 http://www.traditionsverband.de/magazin/verzeichn.html)

Officers
Kapitänleutnant Apel
Oberleutnant z.S. Wenig
Marinezahlmeister-Aspirant Wittstock

2.FK
Vermessungssteuermann Grewen (died 1918 Dar Es Salaam)
Obermaat Hösermann
Obermaat Marshall
Obermaat von Hasseln
Vermessungsmaat Reichel
Bootsmannsmaat Röthemeier
Bootsmannsmaat Tappe

4FK
Obermaat Gordner
Obermaat Ritter

9FK
Vizesteuermann Martini
Obermaat Feldmann
Obermaat Schütz
Obermaat Seefeld

10 FK
Obermaat Lühmann (died 1918 Dar Es Salaam)
Vermessungsmaat Eichhorn
Maat Neubert

11FK
Maat Merbeck
Maat Luttmann

13FK
Obermaat Kunze (died 1918 Dar Es Salaam)

17FK
Steuermaat Ellberg
Bootsmaat Boykson
Bootsmaat Jansen (died 1918 Dar Es Salaam)
Bootsmaat Trapp

21FK
Obermaat Zeitz
Obermaat Welslau

4 SK
Steuermaat Braunus
Obermaat Träger
Obermaat Neumann
Obermaat Lantz
Obermaat Goos

6SK
Maat Scherner

2 Batt
Obermaat Weingardt
Maat Jansen

Of those 36 naval servicemen, four died in Dar Es Salaam (most probably of influenza), leaving 32 survivors to go back to Germany. Not all of the 32 naval personnel are from the Königsberg however.

Some are probably from the blockade runner the SS Rubens. The crew was hand picked from ethnic Danish sailors from Schleswig-Holstein to help them pass as a neutral merchant vessel if they were stopped by the British Royal Navy on their way to East Africa. I would suggest the four very Danish sounding members of the 17FK (Steuermaat Ellberg, Bootsmaat Boykson, Bootsmaat Jansen and Bootsmaat Trapp) are probably from the Rubens. Of these men Jansen died 1918 Dar Es Salaam. The other three should be removed from our list of naval Königsberg suspects, leaving 29.

Quite a few may be from the survey ship SMS Möwe which had an original crew of 103. These men served with the SS Goetzen (and the Korogwe gun). Assuming that they suffered a roughly similar percentage casualty rate as Königsberg sailors. Then the Möwe's 100 crew should make up roughly 25% of the survivors compared to the Königsberg's 300 crew being 75%. So by these very rough calculations the Königsberg's crew probably account for about 21 of the survivors. That could well in reality be the 15 reported in survivor figures.

But this figure does not include any Königsberg crew that were captured before November 1918, served in POW camps and then returned to Germany after the war. Note that the ship's captain Max Looff who survived the war and took part in von Lettow-Vorbeck's parade through Berlin in 1919 is not on the list and neither are Rudolf Viehweg, Hermann Müller nor Hans Apel, all of whom were Königsberg crew members who wrote their memoirs after the war. During the East African land campaign, most of the Königsberg crew were formed into the Abteilung Königsberg the majority of which surrendered in late 1917 south of the Rufiji. These men would have been camped as POWs in British East Africa, Egypt and Malta along with other Schutztruppe POWs and repatriated to Germany during 1919. Among them was Max Looff. This leads me to conclude that the number of survivors of the Königsberg was a lot higher than 15 if we include POWs. It may be in the hundreds...
Any more thoughts on that topic? If someone has a crew list that would be very helpful!

Cheers
Chris

Image
Governor Schnee with the last officers to surrender in November 1918. Among them are Wenig (the commander of gun 9 Mahiwa) standing third from right with a naval officer's cap and Hans Apel (commander of gun 8 Kibata) sat directly in front of Wenig

CPT Bob
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#217

Post by CPT Bob » 08 May 2014, 00:07

Smokestack Extension: Necessity or Deception?

I strongly discount the “concealment” theory. The SMS Graf von Götzen did not Hide from Anyone!

I suggest two explanations as to “why" the stack on the Goetzen was raised.

The stack height was increased in order to divert smoke and cinders away from the gun’s crew and ammunition. If you were standing at the front of the boat in peacetime, and the wind blew the wrong way, you could simply move or the Captain could order a course change. Relocating was not an option if you were manning the gun during a fight. (This past winter I installed a Jotul woodstove; I had to increase the height of my chimney by about one meter for the same basic reason: “safety”.)

The stack height was increased as part of the “PSY-OPS” campaign. A bigger stack implies a bigger engine, which in turn implies greater speed. It made the ship larger and more intimidating. (You will have more time to be terrorized and there will be more time for the panic to spread if you can see the “Death Star” approaching from farther away. Ha!) A simple, big metal tube has us all wondering “What were those devious Germans up to?” I imagine that the Brits at the other end of the lake were thinking just about the same thing when they first heard the reports! (The SMS Emden raised a fourth, dummy stack as a ruse.)

Aye-aye, Sir!
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Chris Dale
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#218

Post by Chris Dale » 08 May 2014, 13:20

Good work Bob, that does all seem to add up and make sense so far...

Cheers
Chris

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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#219

Post by CPT Bob » 08 May 2014, 13:35

I found a great series of high-resolution photos of the restored Emden gun/turret in Australia. The gun is missing its traverse mechanism, breech and a few other little pieces, but it is relatively complete. The sights are mounted. You can see how everything works. Here is one. Very nice!

http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/vi ... 9&start=20

Bob
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Ralph Lovett
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#220

Post by Ralph Lovett » 02 Jun 2014, 18:27

This has been an interesting series of post on the guns onboard the SMS Königsberg.

There were many German light cruisers with pairs of the 8,8cm S.K. L/30 in storage, intended for use onboard auxiliary cruisers (German Merchant Ships) in the early days of WW1. In one example where a successful delivery was made, the SMS Karlsruhe gave the two 8,8cm SK L/30 guns she had to the SS Kronprinz Wilhelm (Norddeutsher Lloyd passenger liner) somewhere off the US East Coast. The SS Kronprinz Wilhelm went on to raid Allied shipping in the Caribbean and after experiencing mechanical problems, eventually made her way back up the US East Coast to Newport News, VA, where she was interned.

I own an 1890s Era German 8,8cm S.K. L/30 of the type that were stored onboard light cruisers like the SMS Königsberg and SMS Karlsruhe and used onboard auxiliary raiders, like the SS Kronprinz Wilhelm; or in the case of the SMS Königsberg were passed on to colonial troops:

http://www.lovettartillery.com/8.8cm_Sc ... _L_30.html


In addition to my 8,8cm SK L/30, I know of one other in the USA and the surviving 8,8cm SK L/30 on the field carriage in South Africa.

R/

Ralph Lovett
http://www.lovettartillery.com/index.html

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Chris Dale
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#221

Post by Chris Dale » 13 Jun 2014, 02:42

Hi Ralph,

Thanks for the contribution on the 8.8 gun. It's amazing you've got one! That's a great website you've got there too, I've referred to it a lot over the years.

Cheers
Chris

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Chris Dale
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#222

Post by Chris Dale » 07 Jul 2014, 22:59

tabora gun1.jpg

What does the jury say to this photo from Kevin Patience's book, "Königsberg- A German East African Raider"?
tabora gun2.jpg
Cheers
Chris

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danebrog
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#223

Post by danebrog » 08 Jul 2014, 13:03

Personally I would be VERY interested in Kevins source for thar picture ;-)

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Chris Dale
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#224

Post by Chris Dale » 08 Jul 2014, 13:24

There's no mention of a source. The only reference to the photo is the short caption "Tabora gun".

At first glance I thought it might be another view of the Bagamoyo gun, which it may well still be. However I'm having trouble seeing the flange on the barrel... if there is no flange then I'm a bit confused (again!). The Tabora gun however should also have a barrel flange according to our calculations as it was in a turret at Kigoma.

What do you guys think?

Cheers
Chris

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Chris Dale
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#225

Post by Chris Dale » 14 Jul 2014, 01:17

I've been reading more of Kevin Patience's book, "Königsberg- A German East African Raider" which I bought recently. I can't believe I never read it before. It has a lot of information on the ship and it's history especially the HMS Pegasus sinking.

There's not much of the story of the guns on land, just a couple of pages here and there. But he does add some clues.

About the Kahe gun displayed in Dar Es Salaam after the war he says "After standing for over ten years with nothing to identify it, the government secretary asked Capt Ingles (the former Capt of the Pegasus and now naval commander in East Africa) for details and a suitable notice was made. Five years later on 22 August 1934 the gun was removed for storage and has no doubt since been scrapped."

That settles the fate of the Kahe gun, I think....

Cheers
Chris

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