Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

[CPT Bob]

Two-year-old children...it has been a while...I had forgotton.....a two-year-old.......please,God....show mercy. Ha!

I have started to draft an explanation of how I think the sights operated. I incorrectly identified one piece of equipment in the “Kibata Photo”; the item that I first thought was “part of the sight-tube that was just jammed on the top of the gun” is actually a correctly-mounted arm and bracket for the curved brass gauge, which appears to be missing. The #368 sight-parts all appear to be damaged and are assumed to have always been together. The Kibata Gun photographs show that the arm & bracket are still intact.

It is unlikely that someone would have gone back to the gun after the photo was taken and removed the bracket from the arm; therefore it is unlikely that the Gun in the Kibata Photo is #368.

[Chris Dale]

Well spotted again Bob!

Cheers
Chris

[keesuit]

May I add my little piece to your research:
Korogwe http://pallas.cegesoma.be/pls/opac/opac ... b=1&dbnu=1
Tabora http://pallas.cegesoma.be/pls/opac/opac ... b=1&dbnu=1 & http://pallas.cegesoma.be/pls/opac/opac ... b=1&dbnu=1
I do think the last picture has a wrong description, but the one before may well be correct. Pierre Daye pictures in this archives suggest at least they were made by a Belgian if not by himself. The picture of the Tabora gun could also of course be war booty.
A German describes an explosion, he heard the last night before the capture of Tabora, as the blowing up of the Königsberg gun, after it had fired its last rounds. But they may well have blown up something else.
Tabora & railroad fit wonderfully, so look out for another picture of the shed and the mountains in the back.
Best wishes to you all,
Kees

[CPT Bob]

Welcome, Sir!
Well done! I agree with your assessment; one photo appears to show victorious Belgians, another shows Germans posing and the third shows a German Machine-Gun Crew loaded on mules & ready for Inspection.

[keesuit]

It would seem the pictures of the Tabora gun are much more professional than the earlier war pictures in the collection.
Different lenses seem to have been used. The gun has been repositioned to get a good composition. Possibly more prints have been made for everybody in the picture.
I have been looking for some pictures of Tabora & Kigoma. It certainly is not Kigoma. Below 2 pictures from Tabora. The head in the second one is just in front of what may be a dip in the hills, like on the Belgian picture. But it could still be anywhere else between Kigoma & Tabora.
One other question you may be able to answer: is this gun still in working condition or are vital parts missing?
And why is the scene so peacefull? If they are waiting for the train, where is the rest of the luggage? It just seems the picnic basket is missing to get the scene right.

[Tanzania]

Hello Kees,

Many thanks for your very interesting new photos. I am constantly surprised about the fantastic
new photos in this very useful and important thread, by Chris Dale. Regarding this `Tabora gun´:

The combat position directly near railway-lines on your photo and the reference of the city Tabora,
which Bob have had compared very well on the two photos, bring me to the conclusion, that this photo
was taken on the Central railway, one of the small railway-station of Mabama, Ussoke or Lulanguru,
west from the city Tabora.


. . .


This Gun which was formally placed on the `Elephant´ hill, 2 ½ km south of Kigoma from the
18th August 1915 to the 19th July 1916, was used during some fights along the Central Railway
between Kigoma and Tabora on the retreat of the Möve-marine-section lead by Korvettenkapitän
Gustav Zimmer. At all of this actions this Gun has been brought into position near the railway lines.

Combat Diary of this `Tabora Gun´:
1st September 1916; Combat at Mabama (Artillery-leader: Kapitänleutnant Fritz Schreiber)
2nd - 3rd September; Night-combat south of Ussoke
7th September 1916, Fight at Ussoke
10th & 12th September 1916; Heavy fights at Lulanguru (Gun-leader: Leutnant z.S. Reinhold Kohtz)
13th -14th September 1916; Heavy battle of Itaga, 11 km north-west of Tabora
18th September 1916; Late afternoon after shooting of the last 30 rounds the gun was left / lost.

This `Tabora gun´ was not lost in Tabora, it was the Hill Ngeruka near an old Mission station,
Itaga, near the headquarter of the Commander of the western troops, Generalmajor Kurt Wahle.

[CPT Bob]

The gun appears to be located at a Depot/ Bahnof on a Side Track at a Loading Platform. Does that Design match any Stations along the railway?

The gentleman wearing the “Regulation” helmet appears to be in Command. Does anyone have a photograph of Schreiber or Kohtz for comparison?

[CPT Bob]

I believe that I see a third set of tracks in the background, but I am not sure. I am sure that they moved the gun between photographs.

I find it hard to believe that a Commissioned Officer would have that amount of facial hair, but a Warrant Officer or Non-commissioned Officer, perhaps. Any of those professional military men would retain their regulation headgear for as long as possible.

I also doubt that the Schreiber or Kohtz would actually be “the man looking down the gun sights” even if there was only one gun in the Battery. Perhaps the Commander and his Staff are posing for “Hollywood” photos!

[Tanzania]

Hello Bob,

I like your detail photo analyses.
Without assumptions, speculations and logical premises; - sometimes no progress in the research is possible.

Regarding your questions:

The gun appears to be located at a Depot/ Bahnof on a Side Track at a Loading Platform. Does that Design match any Stations along the railway?

I have two books about the Railway in GEA, but didn´t found the requested detail info about a general `small
railway- or platform-design´. Maybe another is more successful. Since the barrel point to the west on both
photos, the small building must be automatically in the south. Together with the side track, this is the case only
for the present situation of the small Railway station / building of Mabama. (No proof; - only an indication.)

Does anyone have a photograph of Schreiber or Kohtz for comparison?

Schreiber have been the first Officer of the research and survey vessel SMS "MÖVE" and Kohtz was before Adjutant on the light Cruiser SMS "KÖNIGSBERG". He was the Gun-leader of three Königsberg-guns:
2. Kondoa-Irangi, 18th May 1916
6. Korogwe (Kahama), 2nd September 1916
7. Tabora (Itaga/Ngeruka) 18th September 1916
Both were wounded taken prisoners, when Lieutenant général Charles H. M. Ernest Tombeur conquered Tabora on 19th September 1916. But sorry I didn’t found any proofed photo from both German officers.


I used the following German- and Belgian sources especially only for this `Tabora gun´:
»Kampf um Deutsch – Ostafrika«, Wilhelm Arning ,Verlag Gebrüder Jänecke, o. J.
»Mit Lettow-Vorbeck durch Afrika«, Dr. Ludwig Deppe, August Scherl Verlag, Berlin 1919
Unveröffentlichte Unterlagen und Rohmanuskript des unten genannten Buch von Ludwig Boell,
»Die Operationen in Ostafrika, Weltkrieg 1914-1918«, Ludwig Boell, Verlag Dachert, Hamburg 1951.
»Die Kolonialdeutschen aus Deutsch-Ostafrika in belgischer Gefangenschaft«, Reichskolonialamt, Berlin 1918
»Das Offizierskorps der Schutztruppe für Deutsch-Ostafrika im Weltkrieg 1914-1918«, W.-E. Maillard & J. Schröder.
»Hauptmann Wintgens Rückzug von Ruanda nach Tabora und die Kämpfe um Tabora«, B. Koppe, Koloniale Rundschau 1919
»La campagne anglo-belge de l'Afrique Orientale Allemande«, Charles Stiénon, Paris 1918
»Les campagnes coloniales belges 1914-1918«, Vol. 1+2, Institut Cartographique Militaire, Bruxelles 1927
»Tabora 1916: de la symbolique d'une victoire«, Georges Delpierre, Université Catholique de Louvain 2002

Cheers Holger Kotthaus

[Tanzania]

SOME ADDITIONAL REMARKS TO THE `TABORA-GUN´


Referring to the argumentation of the two Königsberg-guns in the western Part of GEA (Korogwe and Tabora)
and the discussion which type of gun-carriage have been used for both guns; - here some additional remarks.
(History and carriage-type oft the 3rd Königsberg-gun in the western area, in Muansa from 14th July 1916 is clear)


Kapitänleutnant Hans Apel, formally watch serving- and artillery officer (Wach- und Artillerie Offizier) on the light
Cruiser SMS "KÖNIGSBERG" was at this date responsible for the modification of the four `original´ Krupp-carriages,
which arrived with the auxiliary vessel (blockade-runner No.15) "MARIE" on the 16th March 1916 on the southern part
of the coast, in Lindi. (Apel was later leader of the 8th Königsberg-gun, which was lost on 15th January 1917 in Kibata)


The following lines are an original part of Apels German memories:

"Ende März 1916 (Tagesanbruch 16. März) war im Südlichen Teil der Kolonie der zweite Hilfsdampfer `Marie´
unter Kapitän Sörensen, in einer Bucht nahe Lindi (Ssudi) eingelaufen und konnte ungehindert vom Gegner
seine Ladung von Bord geben. . . . Die an Land gegebene Ladung bestand aus vier Lafetten für unsere
10,5 cm Geschütze, zwei 10,5 cm Haubitzen und vier 7,5 cm Gebirgskanonen mit der dazugehörigen
Munition. Diese aus der Heimat gesandten neuen Lafetten waren schwere Fahrzeuge mit Schutzschilden,
wohlgeeignet für feste europäische Landstraßen und kräftige Zugtieren. Für die Wegeverhältnisse im Busch
erwiesen sie sich jedoch zunächst als wenig geeignet. Es wurden die Schutzschilde abgenommen und aus
ihnen die dringend notwendigen Schutzschilde für Maschinengewehre angefertigt. Über die sehr schmalen
Räder zogen wir 25 cm breite Eisenbänder. Sie boten eine gewisse Gewähr dafür, daß die Fahrzeuge bei
sandigen und aufgeweichten Wegen nicht zu tief einsanken. Zwei dieser Lafetten gingen sofort nach
Umbau mit zwei Daressalamer Geschützen an die Front, eine dritte ohne Geschütz nach Kigoma. "
Source:
»Kreuzer Königsberg, 1.WK, DOA, Lebensbericht«, Hans Apel , page 40,
Chapter 5. Die Schiffsgeschütze als Artillerie der Kaiserlichen Schutztruppe, Privatdruck ohne Jahr.

Apel explained the arrival, transport from Lindi to Daressalam, modification of the carriages and that one of these
Krupp-carriage was sent afterwards immediately to Kigoma. Survey-boatswain`s mate (Obervermessungsgast)
Anton Ruhland from the research- and survey vessel SMS "PLANET" confirmed Apels information in his article:
»Die Verwendung von Schiffsgeschützen im Ostafrikanischen Feldzuge 1914 -1918«, Heft 3, Marine Rundschau 1927.
Ruhland is later gunner for one of the two 8,8cm-Guns and captured together with his gun, 24th January 1917 in Likuju.



The following photo wasn´t new and was discussed in this thread, but shows this time the date: "2. Septembre 1916",
the exact date when the `Korogwe gun´ was lost. The bottom mentioned source described this exactly, furthermore
the photo shows clear one of the self-made carriage from the workshop in Daressalam. The only consequence could be; -
the other cannon; the `Tabora gun´ has been equipped with the original Krupp-carriage, what Apel explained above.

Photo-source:
»La campagne anglo-belge de l'Afrique Orientale Allemande«, page 245, Charles Stiénon, Paris 1918 (pdf. 374 pages)



In my opinion this is a very clear indication, that the `Tabora gun´ was equipped with a Krupp-carriage like on the photos.
.

[CPT Bob]

Hello, Holger!

I have “Googled” Itaga & Ngeruka Hill. The location known as Itaga appears to be underwater at the southern end of Lake Igombe. “Ngeruka Hill” may be the small hill located South of the lake and East of the dam where the present road turns West to prior to crossing the dam. The road network of 100 years ago has been submerged; therefore the exact route of the Belgians’ advance may be as well.

If that is “Ngeruka Hill”, a gun with a range of 7.5miles/12kms located there would easily cover the entire Lake Igombe region.

“Ngeruka Hill” is a long way from the Banhof, so it is very possible that the photos were taken West of Tabora. Even though it was September, the low latitude makes the shadows small and estimating directions difficult.

Exactly what type of “Doctor” was Dr Muller? Hmmmmmm……
I truly doubt that he is the man on the gun (although he is the same size and he does have a beard.), but the gentleman on the right shows a very strong resemblance.

[Chris Dale]

This is all really good work guys and thanks for the new photos Klees!

A few comments on them and thoughts from me....

I'm still not sure that the gun in the photos next to a railways station is the Tabora gun. It has no flange, as we discussed before the Tabora gun did have a flange as it was turret mounted at Kigoma. I think the gun in these photos is the Kondoa Irangi gun...

The photo of the MG crew. I don't think they're German. The askari all wear shorts and bare feet. I think they're Belgian...

Mentions of “regulation” tropical helmets can be misleading. There were several types of tropical helmet in use. The tall khaki helmet seen worn by the officer looks to be a Schutztruppe 1896 helmet, tall and khaki. In 1913 a lower khaki helmet was authorised for the Schutztruppe, there appear to have been variations in its shape and size (this may be what the guys on the far left and right are wearing- though the man on the left wears his backwards!). There were also homemade and captured helmets in use in DOA. Most interestingly the chap loading the gun in front of the officer is wearing a 1900 Bordtfeld helmet... that was issued to the navy but not the Schutztruppe- so I think he is one of the original Kberg gunners! Looking closer I think he's wearing a white naval top with dark blue edging...

Bob said-
“I find it hard to believe that a Commissioned Officer would have that amount of facial hair, but a Warrant Officer or Non-commissioned Officer, perhaps.”
On campaign in DOA Germans of all ranks wore beards. I found an eyewitness quote (in Blockade and Jungle) saying as the uniforms/helmets were so similar often the only way to tell friend from foe was to see if they were bearded or clean shaven!

Bob asked-
“Exactly what type of “Doctor” was Dr Muller? Hmmmmmm…… “
The title says Stabsarzt, that's a senior medical doctor. On his tropical helmet, it looks like he has a badge above the cockcade on the front. That could be a small imperial eagle showing he's a non-combatant official, such as a Stabsarzt.

Cheers
Chris

[Tanzania]

I'm still not sure that the gun in the photos next to a railways station is the Tabora gun. It has no flange, as we discussed before the Tabora gun did have a flange as it was turret mounted at Kigoma. I think the gun in these photos is the Kondoa Irangi gun...

Hi Chris,
I must honestly admit, that I didn’t´ really followed your discussion about the detail of this flange, because for me all guns have had come from the same source; - the Königsberg; - with, or without a flange. And I have not so much detail know-ledge about this canon-technical details.

The references have had come from the photo-sources themselves. Both photos of this `mysterious´ gun (Kondoa-Irangi
or Tabora) mentioned Tabora. Furthermore I believe, both pictures have been made by the same Photograph; a German
who later captured by the Belgians, together with his photos. If I understand it correct we don´t know the sources of Kevin
Patience’s book; only that this canon was described as `Tabora gun´. The same with Kees posted Link from Pierre Daye,
1916, Tabora, canon de 105mm du croiseur allemand "Koenigsberg" http://pallas.cegesoma.be/pls/opac/opac ... b=1&dbnu=1
All pictures in this file shows the background about the Belgian campaign around Tabora. It would be most unusual if under
all this 145 photos are one from the battle of Kondoa-Irangi, where only British and South African units were involved, a few
hundred Kilometres away. But Again; - only indicates and you are absolutely right; let us be carefully.

The photo of the MG crew. I don't think they're German. The askari all wear shorts and bare feet. I think they're Belgian...

I think Bob want only to compare the German and Belgian MG´s.

Bob asked-
“Exactly what type of “Doctor” was Dr Muller? Hmmmmmm…… “
The title says Stabsarzt, that's a senior medical doctor. On his tropical helmet, it looks like he has a badge above the cockcade on the front. That could be a small imperial eagle showing he's a non-combatant official, such as a Stabsarzt.

Maybe a misunderstanding, but I thought we talk about Kapitänleutnant Fritz Schreiber and not about Oberstabsarzt Dr. Müller?!?

Cheers Holger

[Chris Dale]

Good points, Holger...

There's a couple more photos on the IWM site of the Bagamoyo gun that I haven't seen before-
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205260368
and
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205260374

Cheers
Chris

[Tanzania]

The user `Maureene´ by the `Colleges´ in the Great War Forum refer to a link of the
The Kenya Gazette (1899 to 1964) http://books.google.com.au/books?id=1si ... es_r&cad=1

If we know the date of the arrival of this `Bagamojo´ Gun in Mombasa, I am sure this event
was mentioned in the The Kenya Gazette with some background informations.

Cheers Holger