Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg
Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg
Greetings! Yesterday, I did a Google Image Search for “Konigsberg Gun” and I found a photo which I had never seen before. It had been posted on “Pinterest” more than a year ago by a gentleman from South Africa. The caption dates the photo as “the 1910s” and incorrectly names Zanzibar as the location.
A previously unseen/unknown section of “blast shield” appears to be leaning against the front of the gun.
Notice how the shadow of the barrel falls across the shield and onto the ground directly under the barrel.
A previously unseen/unknown section of “blast shield” appears to be leaning against the front of the gun.
Notice how the shadow of the barrel falls across the shield and onto the ground directly under the barrel.
- Chris Dale
- Host - German Colonies
- Posts: 1955
- Joined: 21 Apr 2004, 15:48
- Location: UK
- Contact:
Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg
Good work Bob, I mistook that plate to be a display plaque at first but I think you're right as it's the same shade as the main shield...
Cheers
Chris
Cheers
Chris
Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg
If that is the lower section of the blast shield, it would explain the purpose of the holes and the “mystery shadow”.
Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg
I have posted portions of my “flow chart”, but I have overlooked posting the entire diagram. Please note my assumptions regarding the serial numbers.
- Chris Dale
- Host - German Colonies
- Posts: 1955
- Joined: 21 Apr 2004, 15:48
- Location: UK
- Contact:
Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg
Sounds very likely with the holes and mystery shadow. The chart shows we are getting very close to target...
Good work again Cap'n!
Cheers
Chris
Good work again Cap'n!
Cheers
Chris
- Chris Dale
- Host - German Colonies
- Posts: 1955
- Joined: 21 Apr 2004, 15:48
- Location: UK
- Contact:
Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg
I think you're probably roight on the numbering of the guns on the ship but we can't be certain yet until we find a diagram showing the placement and numbers... or until we find another surviving ship of the German Navy to compare their system of numbering guns??? Does anyone know where we'd start looking for one of those?
Cheers
Chris
Cheers
Chris
Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg
Bob, very good idea to create a graphical installation. In most of the cases one picture can tell more than 1,000 words.
But where is our clearly gun-loss from the 18th September 1916 at Tabora (Itaga Hill)?
Cheers Holger
But where is our clearly gun-loss from the 18th September 1916 at Tabora (Itaga Hill)?
Cheers Holger
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984
Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg
I had considered that the object under the carriage was a “Gunners’ Platform”. I am now convinced it is the disassembled Blast-Shield. (I still contend that men who were too short for the Infantry and too fat for the Cavalry were sent to the Artillery. Ha!)
Hello, Holger. The evidence suggests that the BARREL from Kigoma Hill was mounted on the REPAIRED “Kondoa-Irangi” Krupp carriage, captured by the Belgians at Itaga and eventually taken to Pretoria by the South Africans.
Hello, Holger. The evidence suggests that the BARREL from Kigoma Hill was mounted on the REPAIRED “Kondoa-Irangi” Krupp carriage, captured by the Belgians at Itaga and eventually taken to Pretoria by the South Africans.
Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg
My numbering sequence is an "educated guess". It is basic military drill; tell a Corporal to line-up ten soldiers in a column of "2's". This would be the result.
Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg
( – –––––> – )But where is our clearly gun-loss from the 18th September 1916 at Tabora (Itaga Hill)?
The evidence suggests that the BARREL from Kigoma Hill was mounted on the REPAIRED “Kondoa-Irangi”
Krupp carriage, captured by the Belgians at Itaga and eventually taken to Pretoria by the South Africans.
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984
Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg
The chart is my attempt to solve the “puzzle”. I realize my theory has many unproven assumptions and that my evidence interpretation is debatable. “Eliminating possibilities” is still considered to be “progress”.
Regarding the Itaga/Pretoria gun; I have exchanged several e-mails with museums in BE and SA, but my basic questions to them remain unanswered.
Facts:
The gun emplacement on Kigoma Hill mounted an armored “Turret”. This indicates that the CRADLE would have a “Flange”. (The Pretoria Gun has a “Flange”.)
The pivoting Yoke was used on the DAR carriages, but it was not used on the Krupp carriages.
The Yoke was abandoned on Kigoma Hill, indicating that the Barrel, Cradle & Dampers were mounted onto a Krupp……or a REPAIRED Krupp…..carriage.
The Belgians captured two guns, but only the one seized at Kologwe was taken back to the Congo as a “Trophy”. That gun was mounted on a DAR carriage, retained its Yoke and it had a Flange; therefore, it came from the Goetzen.
The Belgians turned-over control of the Tabora region to the King’s African Rifles. The KAR was soon replaced by the South Africans.
Theory:
******The Itaga Gun was collected and consolidated with other captured weapons & equipment and the South Africans took the Itaga Gun back to Pretoria.******
Regarding the Itaga/Pretoria gun; I have exchanged several e-mails with museums in BE and SA, but my basic questions to them remain unanswered.
Facts:
The gun emplacement on Kigoma Hill mounted an armored “Turret”. This indicates that the CRADLE would have a “Flange”. (The Pretoria Gun has a “Flange”.)
The pivoting Yoke was used on the DAR carriages, but it was not used on the Krupp carriages.
The Yoke was abandoned on Kigoma Hill, indicating that the Barrel, Cradle & Dampers were mounted onto a Krupp……or a REPAIRED Krupp…..carriage.
The Belgians captured two guns, but only the one seized at Kologwe was taken back to the Congo as a “Trophy”. That gun was mounted on a DAR carriage, retained its Yoke and it had a Flange; therefore, it came from the Goetzen.
The Belgians turned-over control of the Tabora region to the King’s African Rifles. The KAR was soon replaced by the South Africans.
Theory:
******The Itaga Gun was collected and consolidated with other captured weapons & equipment and the South Africans took the Itaga Gun back to Pretoria.******
Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg
Up to this point the story is understandable and absolute credible.Facts:
The gun emplacement on Kigoma Hill mounted an armored “Turret”. This indicates that the CRADLE would have a “Flange”. (The Pretoria Gun has a “Flange”.)
The pivoting Yoke was used on the DAR carriages, but it was not used on the Krupp carriages.
The Yoke was abandoned on Kigoma Hill, indicating that the Barrel, Cradle & Dampers were mounted onto a Krupp……or a REPAIRED Krupp…..carriage.
The Belgians captured two guns, but only the one seized at Kologwe was taken back to the Congo as a “Trophy”. That gun was mounted on a DAR carriage, retained its Yoke and it had a Flange; therefore, it came from the Goetzen.
Was this really fact? I can remember to read, that up to the nineteen-twenties the Belgians took control over the Western part ofThe Belgians turned-over control of the Tabora region to the King’s African Rifles. The KAR was soon replaced by the South Africans.
Tanganyika. Maybe also Tabora? (That’s the reason they try to lift the Goetzen the first time without success)
If the Britain’s took over the control only in the nineteen-twenties and have transported an, also from the Belgians aboundedTheory:******The Itaga Gun was collected and consolidated with other captured weapons & equipment and the South Africans took the Itaga Gun back to Pretoria.******
Old gun carriage by Rail to Dar; this must be recorded in any chronicle!?
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984
Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg
Holger, I believe that we are both “correct”. As I understand, this is a synopsis of events in Tabora:
In September 1916, the Belgians/Force Publique arrived to an abandoned town. Several days later the British/KAR arrived.
The majority of the Force Publique slowly redeployed from Tabora to Rwanda and Burundi. The Belgians left a “token” detachment in Tabora to represent their political interests. As a result, the British “inherited” all of the logistical problems regarding the care of German POWs & civilians, hospitals, indigenous people, supply-route improvement and battlefield clean-up.
The British usually posted “native” troops to rear echelon guard-duty.
In 1917, when General Hoskins was replaced by General van Deventer, most of the British and KAR soldiers in and around Tabora were also replaced by South Africans.
The South African military was in charge of Tabora and the surrounding area from mid-1917 until the end of the war and then into 1919.
The South Africans did not find the Pretoria Gun at Kahe.
I have sent 20-30 e-mails to various museums, historians and Veterans’ organizations in SA……and of those who did respond......not one of them knows anything about the Pretoria Gun…….not when it arrived……not who was there…….nothing!
I look at all the evidence and I see this one possible scenario.
In September 1916, the Belgians/Force Publique arrived to an abandoned town. Several days later the British/KAR arrived.
The majority of the Force Publique slowly redeployed from Tabora to Rwanda and Burundi. The Belgians left a “token” detachment in Tabora to represent their political interests. As a result, the British “inherited” all of the logistical problems regarding the care of German POWs & civilians, hospitals, indigenous people, supply-route improvement and battlefield clean-up.
The British usually posted “native” troops to rear echelon guard-duty.
In 1917, when General Hoskins was replaced by General van Deventer, most of the British and KAR soldiers in and around Tabora were also replaced by South Africans.
The South African military was in charge of Tabora and the surrounding area from mid-1917 until the end of the war and then into 1919.
The South Africans did not find the Pretoria Gun at Kahe.
I have sent 20-30 e-mails to various museums, historians and Veterans’ organizations in SA……and of those who did respond......not one of them knows anything about the Pretoria Gun…….not when it arrived……not who was there…….nothing!
I look at all the evidence and I see this one possible scenario.