Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

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CPT Bob
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#346

Post by CPT Bob » 04 Jan 2016, 16:01

Greetings! Yesterday, I did a Google Image Search for “Konigsberg Gun” and I found a photo which I had never seen before. It had been posted on “Pinterest” more than a year ago by a gentleman from South Africa. The caption dates the photo as “the 1910s” and incorrectly names Zanzibar as the location.

A previously unseen/unknown section of “blast shield” appears to be leaning against the front of the gun.

Notice how the shadow of the barrel falls across the shield and onto the ground directly under the barrel.
Bagamoyo Promenade.JPG
hummm....jpg

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Chris Dale
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#347

Post by Chris Dale » 04 Jan 2016, 21:46

Good work Bob, I mistook that plate to be a display plaque at first but I think you're right as it's the same shade as the main shield...
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#348

Post by CPT Bob » 05 Jan 2016, 22:07

If that is the lower section of the blast shield, it would explain the purpose of the holes and the “mystery shadow”.
lower shield & holes.JPG
lower shield & holes.JPG (51.86 KiB) Viewed 1164 times

CPT Bob
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#349

Post by CPT Bob » 18 Jan 2016, 22:21

I have posted portions of my “flow chart”, but I have overlooked posting the entire diagram. Please note my assumptions regarding the serial numbers.
First Edition Flow Chart.JPG

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Chris Dale
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#350

Post by Chris Dale » 19 Jan 2016, 00:31

Sounds very likely with the holes and mystery shadow. The chart shows we are getting very close to target...

Good work again Cap'n!

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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#351

Post by Chris Dale » 19 Jan 2016, 01:36

I think you're probably roight on the numbering of the guns on the ship but we can't be certain yet until we find a diagram showing the placement and numbers... or until we find another surviving ship of the German Navy to compare their system of numbering guns??? Does anyone know where we'd start looking for one of those?
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Tanzania
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#352

Post by Tanzania » 19 Jan 2016, 14:11

Bob, very good idea to create a graphical installation. In most of the cases one picture can tell more than 1,000 words.

But where is our clearly gun-loss from the 18th September 1916 at Tabora (Itaga Hill)?

Cheers Holger
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984

CPT Bob
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#353

Post by CPT Bob » 19 Jan 2016, 17:38

I had considered that the object under the carriage was a “Gunners’ Platform”. I am now convinced it is the disassembled Blast-Shield. (I still contend that men who were too short for the Infantry and too fat for the Cavalry were sent to the Artillery. Ha!)

Hello, Holger. The evidence suggests that the BARREL from Kigoma Hill was mounted on the REPAIRED “Kondoa-Irangi” Krupp carriage, captured by the Belgians at Itaga and eventually taken to Pretoria by the South Africans.
plate brakes.JPG
not platform.JPG
blast shield parts.JPG

CPT Bob
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#354

Post by CPT Bob » 19 Jan 2016, 18:57

My numbering sequence is an "educated guess". It is basic military drill; tell a Corporal to line-up ten soldiers in a column of "2's". This would be the result.

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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#355

Post by CPT Bob » 19 Jan 2016, 18:59


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Tanzania
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#356

Post by Tanzania » 19 Jan 2016, 20:52

But where is our clearly gun-loss from the 18th September 1916 at Tabora (Itaga Hill)?

The evidence suggests that the BARREL from Kigoma Hill was mounted on the REPAIRED “Kondoa-Irangi”
Krupp carriage, captured by the Belgians at Itaga and eventually taken to Pretoria by the South Africans.
( – Image –––––> Image – )
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984

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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#357

Post by CPT Bob » 20 Jan 2016, 15:57

The chart is my attempt to solve the “puzzle”. I realize my theory has many unproven assumptions and that my evidence interpretation is debatable. “Eliminating possibilities” is still considered to be “progress”.

Regarding the Itaga/Pretoria gun; I have exchanged several e-mails with museums in BE and SA, but my basic questions to them remain unanswered.

Facts:
The gun emplacement on Kigoma Hill mounted an armored “Turret”. This indicates that the CRADLE would have a “Flange”. (The Pretoria Gun has a “Flange”.)

The pivoting Yoke was used on the DAR carriages, but it was not used on the Krupp carriages.

The Yoke was abandoned on Kigoma Hill, indicating that the Barrel, Cradle & Dampers were mounted onto a Krupp……or a REPAIRED Krupp…..carriage.

The Belgians captured two guns, but only the one seized at Kologwe was taken back to the Congo as a “Trophy”. That gun was mounted on a DAR carriage, retained its Yoke and it had a Flange; therefore, it came from the Goetzen.

The Belgians turned-over control of the Tabora region to the King’s African Rifles. The KAR was soon replaced by the South Africans.

Theory:
******The Itaga Gun was collected and consolidated with other captured weapons & equipment and the South Africans took the Itaga Gun back to Pretoria.******
Kigoma Pitsss.JPG
Kigoma Pitsss.JPG (36.07 KiB) Viewed 1090 times
Gun Parts.JPG

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Tanzania
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#358

Post by Tanzania » 20 Jan 2016, 18:17

Facts:
The gun emplacement on Kigoma Hill mounted an armored “Turret”. This indicates that the CRADLE would have a “Flange”. (The Pretoria Gun has a “Flange”.)
The pivoting Yoke was used on the DAR carriages, but it was not used on the Krupp carriages.
The Yoke was abandoned on Kigoma Hill, indicating that the Barrel, Cradle & Dampers were mounted onto a Krupp……or a REPAIRED Krupp…..carriage.
The Belgians captured two guns, but only the one seized at Kologwe was taken back to the Congo as a “Trophy”. That gun was mounted on a DAR carriage, retained its Yoke and it had a Flange; therefore, it came from the Goetzen.
Up to this point the story is understandable and absolute credible.


The Belgians turned-over control of the Tabora region to the King’s African Rifles. The KAR was soon replaced by the South Africans.
Was this really fact? I can remember to read, that up to the nineteen-twenties the Belgians took control over the Western part of
Tanganyika. Maybe also Tabora? (That’s the reason they try to lift the Goetzen the first time without success)


Theory:******The Itaga Gun was collected and consolidated with other captured weapons & equipment and the South Africans took the Itaga Gun back to Pretoria.******
If the Britain’s took over the control only in the nineteen-twenties and have transported an, also from the Belgians abounded
Old gun carriage by Rail to Dar; this must be recorded in any chronicle!?
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984

CPT Bob
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#359

Post by CPT Bob » 21 Jan 2016, 22:54

Holger, I believe that we are both “correct”. As I understand, this is a synopsis of events in Tabora:

In September 1916, the Belgians/Force Publique arrived to an abandoned town. Several days later the British/KAR arrived.

The majority of the Force Publique slowly redeployed from Tabora to Rwanda and Burundi. The Belgians left a “token” detachment in Tabora to represent their political interests. As a result, the British “inherited” all of the logistical problems regarding the care of German POWs & civilians, hospitals, indigenous people, supply-route improvement and battlefield clean-up.

The British usually posted “native” troops to rear echelon guard-duty.

In 1917, when General Hoskins was replaced by General van Deventer, most of the British and KAR soldiers in and around Tabora were also replaced by South Africans.

The South African military was in charge of Tabora and the surrounding area from mid-1917 until the end of the war and then into 1919.

The South Africans did not find the Pretoria Gun at Kahe.

I have sent 20-30 e-mails to various museums, historians and Veterans’ organizations in SA……and of those who did respond......not one of them knows anything about the Pretoria Gun…….not when it arrived……not who was there…….nothing!

I look at all the evidence and I see this one possible scenario.


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