Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

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CPT Bob
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#481

Post by CPT Bob » 19 Mar 2016, 15:38

Recently, I have sent several “blind” e-mails requesting information. No responses….yet.

Therefore, here is a photo of the back of Wenig’s head. Ha!

What happened to him at the end of the War? Did he shoot himself? Did he go to South America? Did he go to prison for a while? Did the Allies hang him?
franz-ritter-von-epp-im-kolonialpolitischen-schulungshaus-in-ladeburg-bernau-1938_00365052_p.jpg
franz-ritter-von-epp-im-kolonialpolitischen-schulungshaus-in-ladeburg-bernau-1938_00365052_p.jpg (60.4 KiB) Viewed 717 times
Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-H14239,_Kolonialpolitisches_Schulungshaus.jpg

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Chris Dale
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#482

Post by Chris Dale » 19 Mar 2016, 18:08

Nice haircut!

I've had it confirmed from two more sources that you're right about Boemcken in the photo...

Cheers
Chris


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Tanzania
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#483

Post by Tanzania » 20 Mar 2016, 05:43

.

As far as I can remember it was mentioned that Wenig survived the Second World War. He died when he left the airplane
for the celebration of the former German Colony Togo (27th April 1960). Maybe he was invited by Franz Josef Strauß?

Source: »Das Offizierskorps der Schutztruppe für Deutsch-Ostafrika im Weltkrieg 1914-1918«, W.-E. Maillard & J. Schröder.
.
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984

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Chris Dale
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#484

Post by Chris Dale » 20 Mar 2016, 11:15

Thanks Holger, I hadn't read the book properly. Died at Paris airport 1960...

CPT Bob
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#485

Post by CPT Bob » 25 Mar 2016, 21:21

I want to express my gratitude to Michael Simonson, Archivist at the Leo Baeck Institute, for providing this information which confirms that the “Ostafrika” Reinhold Kohtz and the “Garmisch” Reinhold Kohtz is the same person.

http://members.gaponline.de/alois.schwa ... inhold.htm
kohtz_reinhold.jpg
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Reinhold Kohtz ok.JPG

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danebrog
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#486

Post by danebrog » 28 Mar 2016, 20:06

Well done, Bob!
In addition to his time as member of the "Abwehr" in Danzig:
http://wyborcza.pl/objazdowemuzeum/1,14 ... rects=true
On account of successes Żychonia was also Reinhold Kohtz, deputy head of the Abwehr Gdansk, developed, and under surveillance thanks to the acquisition to cooperate Paulina Tyszewskiej, the mistress of the German spies. Reinhold and Paula, the wife of the owner of poorly thriving company producing machines for ships, met at a table in Sopot casino. It only took one evening - do not they first fell in love with this ...

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Tanzania
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#487

Post by Tanzania » 31 Mar 2016, 18:53

.

Are further informations about Koenigsberg-Guns aviable in Tanganyika Notes and Records?



The mystery of the `Ghost of the Koenigsberg´ engaged not our generation. The search about
captured German guns started already during the war by the invaders. Due to this I am sure
that further written informations are recorded and still aviable; the question is only: WHERE?


As mentioned before; if we take only a view of the situation of the Koenigsberg-guns in British Tanganyika,
and enter the catchwords by Google Books: »Tanganyika Notes and Records, German guns Itaga + Tabora«
some brief information becomes apparent.

Image




Focussing now only on the two above mentioned editions of the »Tanganyika Notes and Records«,
the No. 54, March 1960 and No. 55, September 1960 mentioned two articles:

Image




Two other editions of the T.N. & R. also offered the opportunity for additional statements of the Koenigsberg-guns.

Image


Image

Source: Tanganyika Notes and Records (Whole Inventory list: No.1, March 1936 – No.62, March 1964)
https://www.uef.fi/documents/10970/0/mi ... 568bb56afa




This source are only very rarely offered. This trader offer some copies, but only in Indonesian language!!!
http://antiques.gift/tanganyika-notes-a ... 26904.html

Also this source are not very helpfully.
http://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/008568613




This edition with some background information was aviable and could be ordered.

Image

.
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984

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danebrog
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#488

Post by danebrog » 01 Apr 2016, 20:54

Holger, this was a really tough nut to crack, but....

Other sources for these rare books could be here:
http://www.makula.mak.ac.ug:8080/lib/it ... me=maklib1

and here:
http://baselbern.swissbib.ch/Record/089363132/Details

The University of Glasgow holds some correspondence from G.W. Hatchell:
https://www.archivesportaleurope.net/ea ... 3_SLASH_33

Could imagine the University also has the Tanganjika Notes somewhere in store as Ross Anderson
used them as source for his (imho) excellent PhD thesis, published also at UoG:
http://theses.gla.ac.uk/5195/1/2001AndersonPhD.pdf

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Tanzania
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#489

Post by Tanzania » 02 Apr 2016, 09:25

Holger, this was a really tough nut to crack, but....
Yes it is really not easy to obtaining these informations and getting access to the online archives. The entry
modes are not just circumstantial and achieves seldom to a result, in most of the cases unworldly positioned.

That’s the reason I prefer a personal search in such institutes, because in most of the cases the online index
or inventory gives only a very rough overlook about the content of the documents.



The official »Tanganyika Notes and Records« started only in March 1936. The time period between 1919 and
1935 covered only by the two main-files of:
• Tanganyika Secretariat Record (1919 - 1960)
• Chief Secretary’s Office under the British colonial period (1919 - 1960)




The history, structure, storage system and their connection of these documentations among themselves are here explained:
Report on the Government records and public archives of Tanganyika with recommendations for a National Archives
http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0015/0 ... 8073eb.pdf



Now we come to a location, where all these files are present and could be viewed:
The Records and Nation Archives Division of the National Archives of Tanzania in Daressalam.
“The need to preserve records in Tanzania can be traced back to 1920, when one British officer discovered, hidden among
a mass of German rat and ant eaten documents, secret instructions issued in 1916 by the last German Governor, that the
most valuable Government files should be buried in Tabora and other places, so as to prevent them to falling into the hands
of the British.
By burying the records the Germans thought that, after winning the war, they could recover the records, which served as
evidence of the legal rights of German settlers. The discovery of the buried records by the British victors led to negotiations
between the British administration in Tanganyika and the German Government”
Source: http://www.utumishi.go.tz/archives/archives/


In the past I asked my close old friend Scander Mwinuka to provide with a various appealing edition from the National Archive
In Dar. For him as a Tanzanian the access to the Archive in Daressalam is very simple. For me as a foreigner it´s more difficult.
Currently I am busy to prepare an application for Monday the 6th June 2016 at the National Archives. But I need an invitation.



Such competent authorities need to be convinced with spectacular writings. Maybe, Professor Dr. Chris Dale,
General Director & CEO of the Private Search Institute for Intercultural Affairs under special consideration for
German Colonies and Overseas Expeditions
, can provide me with such invitation letter!?! – :roll:



(Someone who is interested in Koenigsberg-guns can’t be a really bad person. – :D –)

.
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984

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Chris Dale
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#490

Post by Chris Dale » 02 Apr 2016, 12:58

"Such competent authorities need to be convinced with spectacular writings. Maybe, Professor Dr. Chris Dale,
General Director & CEO of the Private Search Institute for Intercultural Affairs under special consideration for
German Colonies and Overseas Expeditions, can provide me with such invitation letter!?!"

Haha, if you think it could help...

Cheers
Chris

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Tanzania
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#491

Post by Tanzania » 03 Apr 2016, 15:06

.

Just one minor feature regarding the name of the place where one gun was abandoned on 2nd September 1916


I don´t now when and where I read the name Kologwe ( 8O ) in this thread?

Korogwe; – Kologwe?!? I can remember that the Chinese cook Hop-sing from `Bonanza´ had the same handicap with
spelling l for r. (“Mistel Caltwlight; – Mistel Caltwlight, – die Küche blennt.”) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EJebBY-Yk0


The Germans designated the town in any case at that time Korogwe in the landscape Kahama and not Kologwe.


Image


Image



Koenigsberg-Gun No. 6 (by loss data) on 2nd September 1916
At: Korogwe in the landscape Kahama and District No. XIV Tabora
Rough History: Daressalam - Kigoma - `Goetzen´ - Dodoma - Kondoa-Irangi - Tabora - Korogwe (Kahama)
Gun Leader: Leutnant z.S. Reinhold Kohtz / Detachement v. Linde-Suden / West forces under Wahle

.
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984

CPT Bob
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#492

Post by CPT Bob » 03 Apr 2016, 17:30

The Germans called the location "Korogwe".

The Belgians called the location "Kologwe".

The people who live there today call the place "Kahama".


The Germans called the location "Schinjanga".

The people who live there today call the location "Shinyanga".


"Korogwe" is also the name of a larger town located along the railway between Tanga and Kahe.

Currently, the Indigenous people refer to both the entire region and the town as "Kahama". (Kahama-Kahama) (I have visited New York-New York. My family came from Baden-Baden.)

I can understand why it is a bit confusing. I believe the "correct" answer should be the current name.
shin-schin.JPG

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danebrog
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#493

Post by danebrog » 03 Apr 2016, 19:39

Tanzania wrote:.
I don´t now when and where I read the name Kologwe ( 8O ) in this thread?
No, not "Hop Sing Slang" :lol: :lol: :lol:
We simply used the Belgian used Name "KoLogwe" from the start to avoid any further confusions with the other KoRogwe near the Usambara Railway (as happened) ;-)

Image

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Tanzania
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#494

Post by Tanzania » 03 Apr 2016, 19:56

.
Bob wrote:
The people who live there today call the place "Kahama".
The people who live there today call the location "Shinyanga".
Currently, the Indigenous people refer to both the entire region and the town as "Kahama".
Who gave you this information? – Google- or current maps? – Or the people who lives there?

I can give you at once minimum two dozen concrete samples about names from Google who are
not correct. I have made many times personnel the experiences that `the people who live there´
never ever heard the name of their own town which was mentioned in a `best aviable map´.

"Korogwe" is also the name of a larger town located along the railway between Tanga and Kahe.
I don´t understand the connection to this. There are also three Kasanga´s, three Igalula´s,
two rivers, close to each other named Songwe and so one . . . . .

I believe the "correct" answer should be the current name.
I don’t believe so . . . .

.
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984

CPT Bob
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Re: Missing Gun from the SMS Königsberg

#495

Post by CPT Bob » 03 Apr 2016, 21:09

The Germans called it Korogwe circa 1880-1916.
The Belgians called it Kologwe c.1916-1919.
The British called it .....?????.......Kahama.....???? c.1920-1961.
The Tanzanians call it Kahama 1961-2016.

If you could go to the exact location where the Belgians photographed the Gun and then asked the local Folk for the name of the location, the answer would likely be "Uncle Joe's goat pasture". Ha! (or the Mine)

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