Armija Krajowa was responisble of civil lithuanians killed in Vilnius (Wilno) region. 500 of them were killed. The aim was to destroy any pro lithuanian opinion and re-create Poland borders of 1939. Similar to Hitler`s opinion about russians, lithuanians were anounced as a non educated, uncultural people. The killings were taken only indoor, to hide the evidence, no shooting took outdoor. in 1995 at the "Bernardinø" (Bernardine) cloister the whole document archive was discovered and also there was a list of lithanian civilians should be killed. Reasons: mentioned Smetona (Lithanian president), kissed lithanian flag, ect.. To make sure that solldiers are killing right, they checked pasports, Lithanian nationality was enought to be killed. Sometimes soldiers asked to show prayer book, if it was written in Lithuanian, bad for you... n 1944 When there was lack of arms, Krajowa sometimes cooperated with nazi Germany, unoficially of course. Germans leaved unsecured arms in the forests for Krajowa fghters
in 1989 Jaroslaw Wolkanovski asked to erect monuments in honour of Armija Krajowa in East Lithuania...
Waiting for Polish and non Polish response.
The Armia Krajowa (Home Army) in Lithuania
The lithuania's also killed poles, there where Lithuanian Schuma battalions, etc. One of the characteristics of eastern parts of pre 1945 Poland was that everybody killed everybody. All ethnic groups and ideological formations (communists vs non-communists) tried to eliminate the other ones, some of then cooperated with Germans others did not. The situation in eastern parts of pre 1945 Poland where similar to these in Kosovo in 1999.Armija Krajowa was responisble of civil lithuanians killed in Vilnius (Wilno) region. 500 of them were killed
Which unit, where and when?When there was lack of arms, Krajowa sometimes cooperated with nazi Germany, unoficially of course. Germans leaved unsecured arms in the forests for Krajowa fghters
I read about a similar situation when a polish AK unit under the command of major Adolf Pilch "Dolina"/"Gora" had an non-attacking agreement with Germans for which they received some weapons. These weapons weren't left in the woods, but rather collected by AK once week/month at a police post. This event occurred some times in last 1943 or early 1944 in the far most eastern part of pre 1945 Poland. Both parties agreed for a truce because of Soviet partisans that treated both. A unit which served under Pilch where arrested and most of the soldiers where executed by Soviet partisans before the polish agreement with Germans. [/quote]
Thank you for your reply
Lithuanian partisan discricts:
http://www.genocid.lt/Memo/lietuvos.htm
To resist armija Krajowa "Vietinë Rinktinë" was created land ed by general Plechavièius. Order was do not take action agains Armija Krajowa, and use arms only for defence. But there was casualtys. AK comendant Krzyþanowski (VIkas or Wolf) ordered to kill 70 lithuanian for one pole killed
There is a document which shows that Krzyþanowski negotiated with Generalkommissar of Lithuania Adrian von Renteln in 1944. This was known in Warshaw and in London. Germans leaved unsecured storehouses from which AK collected arms, there was no direct contact.
First of all, Schuma was German organized, second nobody wants to erect monuments for Schuma battalions. Lithuanian eqivalent to armija Krajowa was Lithuanian partizans, which directly fought against AK, but they didn`t killed polish citizens just because they were poles. Yes they did bad things too, but it was not theyr main aim. After the war lithuanan partisans Killed Russian colonist, but before they were warned several times to leave the country. AK was acting in other country, against that countrys resitance movement.The lithuania's also killed poles, there where Lithuanian Schuma battalions, etc. One of the characteristics of eastern parts of pre 1945 Poland was that everybody killed everybody. All ethnic groups and ideological formations (communists vs non-communists) tried to eliminate the other ones, some of then cooperated with Germans others did not. The situation in eastern parts of pre 1945 Poland where similar to these in Kosovo in 1999.
Lithuanian partisan discricts:
http://www.genocid.lt/Memo/lietuvos.htm
To resist armija Krajowa "Vietinë Rinktinë" was created land ed by general Plechavièius. Order was do not take action agains Armija Krajowa, and use arms only for defence. But there was casualtys. AK comendant Krzyþanowski (VIkas or Wolf) ordered to kill 70 lithuanian for one pole killed
This was happening moastly in Naugardukas and Vilnius discrict. Germans were benefitting from this moast "Dvide and conquer".I read about a similar situation when a polish AK unit under the command of major Adolf Pilch "Dolina"/"Gora" had an non-attacking agreement with Germans for which they received some weapons. These weapons weren't left in the woods, but rather collected by AK once week/month at a police post. This event occurred some times in last 1943 or early 1944 in the far most eastern part of pre 1945 Poland. Both parties agreed for a truce because of Soviet partisans that treated both. A unit which served under Pilch where arrested and most of the soldiers where executed by Soviet partisans before the polish agreement with Germans.
There is a document which shows that Krzyþanowski negotiated with Generalkommissar of Lithuania Adrian von Renteln in 1944. This was known in Warshaw and in London. Germans leaved unsecured storehouses from which AK collected arms, there was no direct contact.
As far as know they did, however I'm not sure about the source. I do think it was mentioned in a book about 5th or 6th Vilnian AK brigade.Askold wrote:The lithuania's also killed poles, there where Lithuanian Schuma battalions, etc
- Did the Lithuanian Schuma battalions actually participated in anti-Polish actions?
Bacilla:
What are your sources?
Bacilla said:
An example of AK co-operation with Germany in Wilno:
http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Wi ... sing[quote]
Wilno Uprising
Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - Cite This Source
This article is about the 1944 battle for Vilnius between the Armia Krajowa and the Wehrmacht. For information on the earlier uprising of September 1, 1943 see: Vilna Ghetto
Operation Ostra Brama was the armed struggle started by the Polish Home Army against the Nazi German occupiers of Wilno (modern Vilnius), during World War II. It started on July 7 1944, as a part of a Polish national uprising, code named Operation Tempest, and lasted until July 14. Although the Germans were defeated, on the following day Soviet Red Army entered the city, and the NKVD started to intern Polish soldiers and arrest the officers. Several days later remains of the Polish Home Army retreated into the forest, and Soviet were in control of the city. Therefore what started as the Polish underground uprising against the Germans ended up as the Soviet victory.
The uprising
On June 12 1944 General Tadeusz Bor-Komorowski, Commander-in-Chief of the Home Army issued an order to prepare a plan of liberating Wilno from German hands. The Home Army districts of Wilno and Nowogrodek, were to liberate the city before the Soviets could reach it. The Commander of the Wilno Home Army District, General Aleksander Krzyzanowski "Wilk", decided to regroup all of the partisan units in the north-eastern part of Poland for the assault, both from inside the city and from the outside.
The starting date was finally set to July 7. Approximately 12,500 Home Army soldiers attacked the German garrison and managed to seize most of the city center. Heavy street fights in the outskirts lasted until July 14. In the eastern suburbs, the Home Army units cooperated with reconnaissance groups of the Soviet 3rd Belorussian Front.
Enter the Soviets
General Krzyzanowski wanted to group all of the partisan units into a re-created Polish 19th Infantry Division. However, the advancing Red Army entered the city on July 15, and the NKVD started to intern all Polish soldiers. On July 16, the HQ of the 3rd Belorussian Front invited Polish officers to a meeting and arrested them.
The internees, almost 5,000 officers, NCO's and soldiers, were sent to a provisional internment camp in Miedniki, a Vilnian suburb (modern Medininkai). Some of them were given the possibility of joining the 1st Polish Army which was integrated into the Soviet Armed forces, while the majority were sent to prisons and GULAGs in the USSR.
After that the remnants of the local Home Army HQ ordered all units to retreat to Rudniki Forest (modern Rudininkai). It is estimated that by July 18 almost 6,000 soldiers and 12,000 volunteers reached the area. They were soon discovered by Soviet air reconnaissance and surrounded by NKVD. Commanders decided to split their units and try to break through to Bialystok area. However, most of the Home Army forces were caught and interned.
An unknown number of soldiers under Lt. Col. Maciej Kalenkiewicz "Kotwicz" stayed in the forests around the city until early August. On August 21 a minor battle between them and the NKVD occurred. Very little is known of their fate.
[/quote]
AK was operating in Polish territory. The Wilno area of Poland was captured by the USSR, as Germany’s ally in 1939, and incorporated in the Lithuanian Soviet Socialist Republic. This action was not recognized by Poland.AK was acting in other country, against that countrys resitance movement.
An example of AK co-operation with Germany in Wilno:
http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Wi ... sing[quote]
Wilno Uprising
Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - Cite This Source
This article is about the 1944 battle for Vilnius between the Armia Krajowa and the Wehrmacht. For information on the earlier uprising of September 1, 1943 see: Vilna Ghetto
Operation Ostra Brama was the armed struggle started by the Polish Home Army against the Nazi German occupiers of Wilno (modern Vilnius), during World War II. It started on July 7 1944, as a part of a Polish national uprising, code named Operation Tempest, and lasted until July 14. Although the Germans were defeated, on the following day Soviet Red Army entered the city, and the NKVD started to intern Polish soldiers and arrest the officers. Several days later remains of the Polish Home Army retreated into the forest, and Soviet were in control of the city. Therefore what started as the Polish underground uprising against the Germans ended up as the Soviet victory.
The uprising
On June 12 1944 General Tadeusz Bor-Komorowski, Commander-in-Chief of the Home Army issued an order to prepare a plan of liberating Wilno from German hands. The Home Army districts of Wilno and Nowogrodek, were to liberate the city before the Soviets could reach it. The Commander of the Wilno Home Army District, General Aleksander Krzyzanowski "Wilk", decided to regroup all of the partisan units in the north-eastern part of Poland for the assault, both from inside the city and from the outside.
The starting date was finally set to July 7. Approximately 12,500 Home Army soldiers attacked the German garrison and managed to seize most of the city center. Heavy street fights in the outskirts lasted until July 14. In the eastern suburbs, the Home Army units cooperated with reconnaissance groups of the Soviet 3rd Belorussian Front.
Enter the Soviets
General Krzyzanowski wanted to group all of the partisan units into a re-created Polish 19th Infantry Division. However, the advancing Red Army entered the city on July 15, and the NKVD started to intern all Polish soldiers. On July 16, the HQ of the 3rd Belorussian Front invited Polish officers to a meeting and arrested them.
The internees, almost 5,000 officers, NCO's and soldiers, were sent to a provisional internment camp in Miedniki, a Vilnian suburb (modern Medininkai). Some of them were given the possibility of joining the 1st Polish Army which was integrated into the Soviet Armed forces, while the majority were sent to prisons and GULAGs in the USSR.
After that the remnants of the local Home Army HQ ordered all units to retreat to Rudniki Forest (modern Rudininkai). It is estimated that by July 18 almost 6,000 soldiers and 12,000 volunteers reached the area. They were soon discovered by Soviet air reconnaissance and surrounded by NKVD. Commanders decided to split their units and try to break through to Bialystok area. However, most of the Home Army forces were caught and interned.
An unknown number of soldiers under Lt. Col. Maciej Kalenkiewicz "Kotwicz" stayed in the forests around the city until early August. On August 21 a minor battle between them and the NKVD occurred. Very little is known of their fate.
[/quote]
Re: The Armia Krajowa (Home Army) in Lithuania
For the discussion you can see the link here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Armia_Krajowa.Bacilla wrote:Armija Krajowa was responisble of civil lithuanians killed in Vilnius (Wilno) region. 500 of them were killed. The aim was to destroy any pro lithuanian opinion and re-create Poland borders of 1939. Similar to Hitler`s opinion about russians, lithuanians were anounced as a non educated, uncultural people. The killings were taken only indoor, to hide the evidence, no shooting took outdoor. in 1995 at the "Bernardinø" (Bernardine) cloister the whole document archive was discovered and also there was a list of lithanian civilians should be killed. Reasons: mentioned Smetona (Lithanian president), kissed lithanian flag, ect.. To make sure that solldiers are killing right, they checked pasports, Lithanian nationality was enought to be killed. Sometimes soldiers asked to show prayer book, if it was written in Lithuanian, bad for you... n 1944 When there was lack of arms, Krajowa sometimes cooperated with nazi Germany, unoficially of course. Germans leaved unsecured arms in the forests for Krajowa fghters
in 1989 Jaroslaw Wolkanovski asked to erect monuments in honour of Armija Krajowa in East Lithuania...
Waiting for Polish and non Polish response.
In short, you are wrong
You are quoting Garsva, Brauzas and other polonophobic and nationalist pseudohistorians. Garsva prepared once the list of 273 innocent AK victims once - the list which included a lot of obvious collaborators. For examplethe case of Ambroziejus Jakavonis, who was sentenced to death penalty by AK for his collaboration with Nazi occupants. His death is presented as prime example of POlish "crimes". Or Mamertas Geidelisa, supposedly innocent victim, who was also sentenced to death by AK for his collaboration with Saugama (remember that this was Polish territory then).Let me also remind that Lithuanian forces were ethnically cleansing the area for quite a long time; for example the massacres of civilians committed by Plechavicius troops from Vietine Rinktine are well remembered to this day. And yet Plechavichius received an order from Lithuanian president.
Ekhm? AK acted in the border of republic of Poland, in side of their own country, which was occupied.Bacilla wrote:. AK was acting in other country, against that countrys resitance movement.
Come on. Sienkowszczyna (near Grauzyszki), does ring a bell?To resist armija Krajowa "Vietinë Rinktinë" was created land ed by general Plechavièius. Order was do not take action agains Armija Krajowa, and use arms only for defence.
Are you referring to the Glinciszki and Dubinki? AK killed 4 Lithuanian policeman. In revenge, Lithuanian police killed 30-40 Polish civilians in Glinciszki In revenge, AK massacred about 30 Lithuanians in Dubingiai. This is the ONLY DOCUMENTED and confirmed act of organised crime by AK in Lithuania. And this crime was initiative of local AK commander (Lupaszko), not on order from higher authorities.But there was casualtys. AK comendant Krzyþanowski (VIkas or Wolf) ordered to kill 70 lithuanian for one pole killed
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Musashi
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I don't know about the entire Vilnius/Wilno region, but there were 4% of Lithuanians inside of Wilno/Vilnius at best, up to 20-25% of Jews and Belorussians, and the rest were Poles or polonised Lithuanians (they considered themselves Poles).Askold wrote: - I am curious as to what whas the ethnic make up of Wilnus region? Was it predominatly polish or similar to Galicia with regards to Polish/Ukrainian population?
From:Polish Encyclopaedia: Volume II: Territory and Population ofPoland
Original: Published by the Committee For the Polish Encyclopaedia Publications at Fribourg And Geneva (Switzerland), Printed by ATAR Ltd, Geneva, 1924
Reprint: Publications of the Polish National Committee Of America, Reprint Edition by Arno Press, 1972
The 1916 census carried out by Germany gives for the District of Wilno And Troki:
Wilno City: Polish: 50.2%, Lithuanians: 2.6%, Jews: 43.5% of total 140,840
Wilno Suburbs: Polish: 89.8%, Lithuanians: 4.3%, Jews: 4.3% of total 63,076
District: Polish: 55.0%, Lithuanians: 24.7%, Jews: 17.3% of total 478,779
1909 Russian Census (% orthodox not given below):
Wilno City: Polish: 37.8%, Lithuanians & others: 4.7%, of total 205,250
Wilno Suburbs: Polish: 71.4%, Lithuanians & others: 7.2%, of total 236,029
Province of Wilno: Polish: 47.1%, Lithuanians & others: 13.6%, of total 1,815,215
1920 Polish Census:
Wilno City & “District”: 25.9% non-Polish of total 279,952
Original: Published by the Committee For the Polish Encyclopaedia Publications at Fribourg And Geneva (Switzerland), Printed by ATAR Ltd, Geneva, 1924
Reprint: Publications of the Polish National Committee Of America, Reprint Edition by Arno Press, 1972
The 1916 census carried out by Germany gives for the District of Wilno And Troki:
Wilno City: Polish: 50.2%, Lithuanians: 2.6%, Jews: 43.5% of total 140,840
Wilno Suburbs: Polish: 89.8%, Lithuanians: 4.3%, Jews: 4.3% of total 63,076
District: Polish: 55.0%, Lithuanians: 24.7%, Jews: 17.3% of total 478,779
1909 Russian Census (% orthodox not given below):
Wilno City: Polish: 37.8%, Lithuanians & others: 4.7%, of total 205,250
Wilno Suburbs: Polish: 71.4%, Lithuanians & others: 7.2%, of total 236,029
Province of Wilno: Polish: 47.1%, Lithuanians & others: 13.6%, of total 1,815,215
1920 Polish Census:
Wilno City & “District”: 25.9% non-Polish of total 279,952
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StephanieSklar
- Member
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- Location: Montreal, Quebec
One question:
I don't know if it's in the scope of this discussion, but I'll try.
---> In what category are the Baltic countries (Lituania, Estonia, Latvia)'s languages? Is it slav or germanic?
Sorry I don't know alot about the countries to the east of Germany and Hungary...Sp. since these states were in the USSR for so long.
I don't know if it's in the scope of this discussion, but I'll try.
---> In what category are the Baltic countries (Lituania, Estonia, Latvia)'s languages? Is it slav or germanic?
Sorry I don't know alot about the countries to the east of Germany and Hungary...Sp. since these states were in the USSR for so long.
Neither Slavic nor Germanic. Lithuanian and Latvian are related Indo-European Baltic Languages. Estonian is related to Finnish, and more distantly to Hungarian; these are not Indo-European.
http://www.ethnologue.com/family_index.asp
Ethnologue language family index
http://www.ethnologue.com/show_family.asp?subid=90017
Language Family Trees
>Indo-European (449)
....Baltic (3)
......Eastern (2)
..................Latvian [lav] (Latvia)
............Lithuanian [lit] (Lithuania)
......Western (1)
.............Prussian [prg] (Poland)
>Uralic (39)
.....Finnic (11)
.........Estonian [est] (Estonia)
.........Finnish [fin] (Finland)
........................
.........Finno-Ugric (1)
.............Ugric (1)
.................Hungarian (1)
...........................Hungarian [hun] (Hungary)
...................................