Did the Italians hate the Germans far more than they hated t

[CJK1990]

It sure seems like it. Not sure how else to explain the fact that there was a huge resistance movement against the Germans while there virtually no resistance at all against the Allies, even though they were the invaders who brought the war to Italy itself.

[Trackhead M2]

It sure seems like it. Not sure how else to explain the fact that there was a huge resistance movement against the Germans while there virtually no resistance at all against the Allies, even though they were the invaders who brought the war to Italy itself.

Dear Big C,
To hear my relatives who lived through the war in Italy, with allies like the Tedeschi,who needs enemies. I know that Tesdeschi is now just the Italian word for German, but I have relatives who to this day essential spit as they say the word. The Germans in Italy weren't a mere nuisance like the Americans in Britain, (Overpaid, Oversexed, and Over here). They acted like an occupying army and appropriated what ever they wanted.
Strike Swiftly,
TH-M2

[Panzermahn]

It sure seems like it. Not sure how else to explain the fact that there was a huge resistance movement against the Germans while there virtually no resistance at all against the Allies, even though they were the invaders who brought the war to Italy itself.

This is incorrect. There are actually pro-fascist resistance (as well a native resistance in Sicily without German assistance) against the Allies from 1944 to at least 1946/1947. The Germans (Abwehr, FAKs, Jagdkommando Italien) actually were quite active helping the Italian pro-fascist resistance (especially against the Italian bolshevik resistance).

The reason why it was not well-known is because the Allies suppressed such news from appearing in the media. There were snipers (much of them were young men and women) in Milan and Turin. In fact Italy was actually in a civil war from 1943 to 1945 according to Renzo de Felice (the most prominent Italian historian on fascism who used to be a communist but changed to nationalist once he sees through the illusion of bolshevism).

There were wire-cuttings and sabotage. As usual, the Allied response would to put such fighters in front of a firing squad. Amazingly even as these Italian fighters were facing death, they held their right hand up high in the salute of their Duce as compare with some Germans in the dock of Nuremberg who blamed it everything on Hitler and the Nazis (of course Hitler can't defend himself anymore so it is quite convenient for them to do so)

There is still a huge book to be written about Italian pro-fascist resistance against the Allies based on the archives of US Counter-Intelligence Corps as well as the British Field Security

[CJK1990]

Well, it seems that whatever resistance occured was minor compared to what the Germans were experiencing. Is there a single documented case of an Allied soldier getting killed by Italian "resistance"?

[Trackhead M2]

Dear Pm,
You seem to be confusing a pro-Facist paramilitary militia with a "resistance' movement. There was a Mussolini government (active and puppet) until 1945. So, the forces you mention are just Mussolini loyalists and not a resistance. The Sicilian resistance you speak of was one that resisted foreigners and saw the Mussolini government the way the former Confederate States in the USA saw the US Government as "Damn Yankees". So the use of the term resistance to the allies by forces loyal to what was the "government" is not correct.
Strike Swiftly,
TH-M2

[Panzermahn]

There are several Allied casualties as mentioned by Biddiscombe in his book The SS Hunter Battalions (Tempus 2006)

Dear Pm,
You seem to be confusing a pro-Facist paramilitary militia with a "resistance' movement. There was a Mussolini government (active and puppet) until 1945. So, the forces you mention are just Mussolini loyalists and not a resistance. The Sicilian resistance you speak of was one that resisted foreigners and saw the Mussolini government the way the former Confederate States in the USA saw the US Government as "Damn Yankees". So the use of the term resistance to the allies by forces loyal to what was the "government" is not correct.
Strike Swiftly,
TH-M2

They resisted the Allied occupation of Italy, so aren't they considered "resistance movements"?

Also, in 1945, Mussolini's government were desposed but it doesn't mean that there wasn't any pro-fascist resistance movement. Not many outside Italy's knew that after 1945, there were numerous group of communist partisans (especially the Policia Partigiani - Partisans' Police) who did not disarmed completely but maintain certain amount of their weapons in caches, waiting for the final day of the proletarian revolution (the Red Army Faction was their spiritual descedents of the myth of the left-wing resistance but that's another story). The small but significantly influential pro-fascist resistance movement (that includes some of the veterans of the RSI, Waffen SS) retain some of their operating capabilities (with the connivances of OSS, who had the foresight and determination not to allow the biggest communist party in the Western bloc to achieve ruling power while at the same time shielding them from the US CIC)

The genesis of the Gladio stay-behind movement (as well as the Stella Alpina, Stella Marina detachments that were deployed in the Italian-Yugoslavian border) originates from the veterans and members of this pro-fascist resistance movement

[Trackhead M2]

Dear Pm,
I disagree that the Fascist paramilitaries were resistance groups before VE day as the were still under a government's orders. The situation described about needing to get the various paramilitary forces to accept that the war was over is also being discussed in a thread about Poland as we communicate.

The problem of armed non governmental groups after VE Day was not limited to Italy. The Greek Civil War began before the Axis was defeated and continued for several years after the war. It was a problem similar to the one in Mexico in the early 20th Century, the rebels got so they didn't know anything but war and became criminals.

Strike Swiftly,
TH-M2

[DrG]

I think that Italians' opinion of Germany has always been, at least since the late XIX Century, very ambivalent. Great admiration for German technical skills and organization, but united with fear of Germany's power and mistrust of it as an ally, due to Germany's overconfidence in itself and low opinion of pacts signed with Italy (in 1866 Prussia signed a separate armistice with Austria, in open violation of the pact signed with Italy only a few months before; in 1908 Austria-Hungary annexed Bosnia-Hercegovina with German consent but without consulting Italy and in 1914 Germany and Austria entered WW1 leaving Italy without information about their moves, both actions against the Triple Alliance; in 1939 Germany signed the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, breaking the Anticomintern pact, and then started a war at least 4 years in advance that agreed with Italy upon the signature of the Pact of Steel).

BUT, that said, I don't think that there was any hate against Germany before the end of 1942, when rumors of German brutality on Italian soldiers during the retreat from the Don River and el Alamein reached Italy. On the contrary, after the French campaing of 1940 there was an entusiastic mood in Italy towards Germany, for example.
During the Sicilian campaign and, which was much worse, after the armistice, there was a real break between Italian people and Germany, nevertheless, it should be noted that hundreds of thousands of Italians went on fighting along with their German ally, often enlisting in the Wehrmacht and not only in the Italian Social Republic.

The dimensions of resistance movements is a baseless argument: no large pro-Axis resistance existed anywhere in Europe, not only in Italy. The reasons are quite obvious:
- no resistance movement developed while the chances of victory of its side were low (even pro-Allied resistance was just a nuisance until 1942, and it was only since 1943 that it became of really important, and only in Eastern Europe);
- the Axis never encouraged resistance.
Anyway, it is often forgotten that by far the largest resistance carried out by an Axis country was the Italian one in East Africa in 1941-42 (with some activity still in 1943, not counting a handful of Eritreans who went on fighting until after WW2).

Guido

[Panzermahn]

Buon Giorno Guido

I think it's inaccurate to say that the Axis never encouraged resistance. In fact, after Stalingrad, Germany actually encouraged pro-Axis resistance as they grudgingly admit that partisan resistance in Eastern Europe has been quite successful, hoping to duplicate such efforts in order to disrupt the advance of the Allies.

In fact, Biddiscombe argued quite convincingly that even in 1945, there are pro-Axis resistance movements mushrooming (this is true in Eastern Europe, not the West) despite the fact that Germany was at the losing end and the major reason is because eventhough Germany were seen to be losing the war, the fact that many anti-Soviet movements still hoped Germany still had the power to weaken the Soviets in hopes of the pattern of political vaccum similar to the end of WW1 from 1918 to 1920 could be repeated.

And I think you probably knew it, but there are more Italian volunteered to fight for RSI as compare with the number of volunteers for the Royal Italian Army during 1940. This is because many Italians felt that Badoglio and his gang betrayed the honour of Italy in the armistice of 1943.

I would be interested to know what the average Italian volunteer for the RSI thought about the massacres perpetrated by the Germans as reprisal actions against illegal partisan activities. But I am pretty sure that many Italians (especially the rural folks) felt that the Italian partisans movement was a nuisance as well as many of the rural folks were convinced that the Italian partisans were actually nuisance bands who forced the civilians to support them.

Panzermahn

[Oasis]

I'd like to see the sources of Panzermahn.
The volunteers for fighting with RSI were in a certain number only to escape from Germany (i.e. div. Monterosa) and at the arrive in Italy a lot disappeared... often joining partisans...
About "gangs" if Badoglio ever had one, what to say about Mussolini? The honour of Italy (which one?) was invoked by a small part of fascists that principally fought partisans and were very very partially involved against allied forces, as Germans did not believe in them...
What do you mean about "illegal partisan activities"? They were called "banditen" and all their activities against nazi-fascists were considered illegal by them: only at the moment of surrender - toward the end of the war - they were often considered as fighting army by the axis forces.
Please don't be so "pretty sure" about italian rural folks "forced" to support "nuisance" partisans: they did support partisans, without their help and cooperation the partisan movement should have been in hard difficulties: they were called patriots, when not directly involved as partisans. And there were also fascist party partners, of course, that helped fascists and nazi troops to capture partisans and their supporters (in many cases elder people, women and children, "simply" massacred by SS and WH troops with the help of Black Brigade)... what about the "honour of Italy"... and there could be many other things to say, always with respect of all opinions, but not of suppositions or unfounded beliefs.

[Panzermahn]

I'd like to see the sources of Panzermahn.
The volunteers for fighting with RSI were in a certain number only to escape from Germany (i.e. div. Monterosa) and at the arrive in Italy a lot disappeared... often joining partisans...
About "gangs" if Badoglio ever had one, what to say about Mussolini? The honour of Italy (which one?) was invoked by a small part of fascists that principally fought partisans and were very very partially involved against allied forces, as Germans did not believe in them...
What do you mean about "illegal partisan activities"? They were called "banditen" and all their activities against nazi-fascists were considered illegal by them: only at the moment of surrender - toward the end of the war - they were often considered as fighting army by the axis forces.
Please don't be so "pretty sure" about italian rural folks "forced" to support "nuisance" partisans: they did support partisans, without their help and cooperation the partisan movement should have been in hard difficulties: they were called patriots, when not directly involved as partisans. And there were also fascist party partners, of course, that helped fascists and nazi troops to capture partisans and their supporters (in many cases elder people, women and children, "simply" massacred by SS and WH troops with the help of Black Brigade)... what about the "honour of Italy"... and there could be many other things to say, always with respect of all opinions, but not of suppositions or unfounded beliefs.

Hello Oasis

Apologies for late reply. I start with English sources like Perry Biddiscombe's excellent The SS Hunter Battalions (Tempus 2006) and Nicholas Farell's Mussolini: A New Life (2004). I had a couple of testimonies from veterans from the UNCRSI (National Association of RSI veterans). Giorgio Pisano's book on the Triangle of Death (at Reggio Emilia) as well as Renzo de Felice's last volume (from the multivolume history on Fascism and Mussolini, and bear in mind that de Felice was also a hardcore communist, who changed his views AFTER the end of the war) on the Italian Civil War from 1943-45 would be a good start

I don't deny some Italians joined the RSI to escape from the internment at the hands of the Germans. But you can't deny that there are Italians who were neither fascist or communists joined the RSI to salvage the honour of Italy. It was after the armistice of 1943 that many the Axis nations look Italy in contempt due to the betrayal of Marshal Badoglio. Another case would be the famous ex-bolshevik Nicolla Bombacci. Bombacci was a die-hard Bolshevik, but when Mussolini announced his RSI in 1943, Bombacci joined him because he knew that it was the Mussolini's social ideas were the correct socialism as compared with the Bolshevik's internationalism-based socialism. And true to his word, Bombacci stay to the very end with Mussolini and paid for his life when he was hanged updside together with the Duce in Piazza Loretto in 1945

You said that the Italian rural folks supported the partisans. Try asking that to the Govoni family who was slaughtered mercilessly by them. How about Norma Cossetto infamous murder? There is a topic in AHF regarding the atrocities of the Italian partisans (they even murdered other partisans who did not share their own political ideas)

Are you forgetting that the Italian partisans had their own agenda of a proletarian revolution (there are partisan republics created by the Italian partisans, such as the infamous Partisan Republic of Montefiorino), to grab the power from the legitimate Italian government after the end of the war? The American and the British knew it, that's why with their determination, Italy was never ruled by the Bolsheviks

Panzermahn

[Oasis]

I'd like to see the sources of Panzermahn.
The volunteers for fighting with RSI were in a certain number only to escape from Germany (i.e. div. Monterosa) and at the arrive in Italy a lot disappeared... often joining partisans...
About "gangs" if Badoglio ever had one, what to say about Mussolini? The honour of Italy (which one?) was invoked by a small part of fascists that principally fought partisans and were very very partially involved against allied forces, as Germans did not believe in them...
What do you mean about "illegal partisan activities"? They were called "banditen" and all their activities against nazi-fascists were considered illegal by them: only at the moment of surrender - toward the end of the war - they were often considered as fighting army by the axis forces.
Please don't be so "pretty sure" about italian rural folks "forced" to support "nuisance" partisans: they did support partisans, without their help and cooperation the partisan movement should have been in hard difficulties: they were called patriots, when not directly involved as partisans. And there were also fascist party partners, of course, that helped fascists and nazi troops to capture partisans and their supporters (in many cases elder people, women and children, "simply" massacred by SS and WH troops with the help of Black Brigade)... what about the "honour of Italy"... and there could be many other things to say, always with respect of all opinions, but not of suppositions or unfounded beliefs.

Hello Oasis

Apologies for late reply. I start with English sources like Perry Biddiscombe's excellent The SS Hunter Battalions (Tempus 2006) and Nicholas Farell's Mussolini: A New Life (2004). I had a couple of testimonies from veterans from the UNCRSI (National Association of RSI veterans). Giorgio Pisano's book on the Triangle of Death (at Reggio Emilia) as well as Renzo de Felice's last volume (from the multivolume history on Fascism and Mussolini, and bear in mind that de Felice was also a hardcore communist, who changed his views AFTER the end of the war) on the Italian Civil War from 1943-45 would be a good start

I don't deny some Italians joined the RSI to escape from the internment at the hands of the Germans. But you can't deny that there are Italians who were neither fascist or communists joined the RSI to salvage the honour of Italy. It was after the armistice of 1943 that many the Axis nations look Italy in contempt due to the betrayal of Marshal Badoglio. Another case would be the famous ex-bolshevik Nicolla Bombacci. Bombacci was a die-hard Bolshevik, but when Mussolini announced his RSI in 1943, Bombacci joined him because he knew that it was the Mussolini's social ideas were the correct socialism as compared with the Bolshevik's internationalism-based socialism. And true to his word, Bombacci stay to the very end with Mussolini and paid for his life when he was hanged updside together with the Duce in Piazza Loretto in 1945

You said that the Italian rural folks supported the partisans. Try asking that to the Govoni family who was slaughtered mercilessly by them. How about Norma Cossetto infamous murder? There is a topic in AHF regarding the atrocities of the Italian partisans (they even murdered other partisans who did not share their own political ideas)

Are you forgetting that the Italian partisans had their own agenda of a proletarian revolution (there are partisan republics created by the Italian partisans, such as the infamous Partisan Republic of Montefiorino), to grab the power from the legitimate Italian government after the end of the war? The American and the British knew it, that's why with their determination, Italy was never ruled by the Bolsheviks

Panzermahn

Hi Panzermahn,

as I can read your sources are all of fascist or neofascist ideology, hating partisans and allied forces: I know all of them, as I read the sources of all ideologies.

Italians who joined RSI were the majority of fascist ideology, others were forced to join to avoid shooting, as per RSI bans, and generally deserted after a short time.
Where RSI and italian SS fought to salvaging "the honour of Italy"? Swearing allegiance to the germans? Or with their only criminal anti-partisan and anti-patriot activity at the service of germans, with almost no direct intervention against the allies?

Bombacci adhered ideologically to fascism from 1933 when he asked help to some gerarchi and Mussolini too for his sick child and asking for a job (it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicola_Bombacci).

The slaughter of Govoni brothers was an infamant answer to the former slaughter of Cervi brothers in a climate of immediate post-war insurgente violence, as it happens after any war, expecially civil war!
Be sure, the italian rural folks in their majority supported the partisans as reported in all official sources. For example, my rural village, about 5000 people in 1943, suffered about 35 dead partisans due to the resistance against black brigades and SS. Come to Italy and try (you) asking the rural and mountain families, and even the city ones.

I do not forget the "agenda of a proletarian revolution" of some italian partisans of socialist and communist parties (parties founded about 50 and 20 years before and well established also under the dictatorship).
I do not know why you call "infamous" the Republic of Montefiorino that, together with the Republic of Carnia, faced a long time italian and german troops and ruled with democracy their faint republics: is it perhaps an adjective token from mr. Pisanò or something like him? No one here in Italy, except neofascists, share your opinion!
The majority of the partisan movement was contrary to the "agenda" you mean, and the idea of revolution was supported after the war for a short time only by a few elements, in some cases common criminals, repudiated by the socialist and communist party (even if with sporadic exceptions... for historical correctness).

The partisan/patriot movement paid 45.000 dead for freedom, and tenth of thousands were the civilians (many women, children, babies, elder people) slaughtered by brigate nere, RSI forces and germans (even in the near former Yugoslavia, where the indiscriminated slaughters caused a hate which found its outlet in the horrible massacres of the "foibe").

"Fascism meant death and was the evil" as recently affirmed mr. Gianfranco Fini, former secretary of italian neofascist party: it is now buried with infamy, with all its ruins, massacres and terror. Only ideology can still survive in many sick minds. History teach.

I could give you many other sources to improve your knowledge of italian recent history, not only from the losing side (with their hate and manipulation), but also by the winners (with also, why not, some historical misinterpretations).
Only if you will like it.

Regards
Toni

[DrG]

Panzermhan,
yes, come to Italy and ask countriside people about partizans. Then you will discover that Oasis is just telling a very, very, very small and biased part of the story.
For example, come to Italy and ask a friend of mine, from the Ossola Valley, the valley that saw the "Partizan Republic of Ossola", and she will tell you how partizans stole cattle, killed farmers who tried to stop them, and then even killed the cattle that they were not able to bring away.
Or come near to Brescia, to discover the great love for partizans for their massacre of people, also non-Fascists, in the graveyard of Sant'Eufemia at the end of the war.
Or... Or... Or... I may go on hours telling you how much partizans were loved by people for their robberies and murders.

I see that Oasis gives the bright example of the Republic of Montefiorino. Let's read what antifascist books like "Le Brigate Garibaldi nella Resistenza" write about the situation in Emilia (the region of Montefiorino), quoting a Communist internal report of July 1944:
"After such merciless [German] reprisals we can imagine the consequences and the reflections on the fighting spirit and the linking of the mass of farmers and mountain people. From indirect information we know that mountain people chase away partizans threatening (till now only threatening) to denounce them to the Germans. In the mind of farmers has entered the idea that such massacres happen because Germans are killed and that it should be better not to kill them. Also here in the city the reasoning is the same."
Or let's read this report by the partizan Giorgio Agosti, written on 31 Dec. 1944 (quoted in "Le formazioni GL nella Resistenza"), about the situation in Piedmont and Aosta Valley:
"A serious mistake has been made trying to occupy whole areas; similar occupations are not sustainable without the support of heavy weapons and with a suitable amount of ammo. Now in Domodossola like in Alba [former "capitals" of the partizan republics of Ossola and Alba], in Giaveno like in Aosta Valley, we have seen regularly partizans that gave up after a few hours of fighting and left civilians in the troubles, civilians who had helped them, willingly or unwillingly. It is not much the reprisal that estranges the farmers' minds from partizans (instead it increases the hate towards Germans and Fascists), but the conviction that reprisal could have been avoided if partizans had been less imprudent and the delusion that follows the euphoria of the temporary liberation. And rage is directed equally towards the Fascist that burns and the partizan that had made them feed him, who maybe had forgotten an ammo magazine in the stable and that, when needed, had been unable to defend the village and instead had only thought about saving himself. The tactics of "tanto peggio tanto meglio" [it means that the worse the situation becomes, the better it is for those who get an advantage from a crisis; in other words, as written also by the Antifascist historian-journalist Giorgio Bocca well after the war, partizans provoked willingly reprisals, in order to make people hate Fascists], which consists in compromising with partizans also the lukewarm and indifferent people and in provoking, even in the most quiet areas, the atmosphere of civil war, is useful shortly before insurrection; but it becomes dangerous when we are forced to be on the defensive."

Both the reports are quoted in Renzo De Felice, "Mussolini l'alleato. II. La guerra civile 1943-1945", pages 330-331. Of course Oasis has dared to include prof. De Felice among "fascists and neofascists" in his sweeping comment about historians read by Panzermahn, just a good example to show how biased he is. Farrell is pretty useless for Italian readers (we have better sources), but again he is not a fascist, as labeled by Oasis.

The figure of 45,000 killed partizans can be reached only including Italian soldiers fighting with partizans in the Balkans after 8 Sept. 1943 (about 10,000 killed) and the about 3,500 foreign partizans died while fighting in Italy. Of the about 35,000 killed partizans fighting in Italy, one half died in German camps and most of the other half was executed shortly after their capture in the Summer of 1944, when Allied victory in Italy looked near and many unexperienced people rushed to become a partizan.
The total number of Italian civilians killed, mostly in reprisals, by Germans and Fascists is about 10,000, according to official figures.
Given that Fascists killed by Italian partizans aftwer WW2 were more or less 12,000 (plus 7,000 before the end of the war, 3,000 in Italy and 4,000 abroad) and that civilians killed by Allied bombings were about 60,000 after 8 Sept. 1943, you get quite a fuller picture of how many Italians may have disliked partizans.

Guido

[Oasis]

Nothing new about some italians disliking partisans, as fearing nazifascist repression against civilians, the only way for these of discrediting partisans, being unable to defeat them in battle.
About post-war revenges and crimes I have already written, and nothing changes by DrG.
Farmers feared nazifascists reactions near Montefiorino, Ossola and everywhere they were on the frontline, and some of them did not take a clear position among partisans or nazifascists: what's the news?
Of course partisans (comprising communists, socialists, catholics, republicans, carabinieri and GdF, veterans, priests, german deserters, escaped POWs, etc.) were not "troops" and lacked the force of an army supported by heavy weapons, but they had to contribute to freeing their Country notwithstanding the fascist massacres against their own population.
Nazifascists continued their war notwithstanding the terrible bombings on the civil populations, partisans also did the same in spite of the repression.
Of course Renzo de Felice was not a fascist (my typo), on the contrary Bombacci was.
About the numbers I prefer not to play with them: killed in Italy or in German camps, makes no difference at all.
Finally, no real proof of "how many italians have disliked partisans"! I repeat, nazifascists have been already judged by history and populations and there is no need to repeat, in spite of your own respectable but not shared opinions.

Toni

[Panzermahn]

It seems that Oasis was blinded by pro-partisan propaganda. The term "Nazifascist" (nazi-fascista in Italian) is a common term in partisan lingo trying to link national-socialism to fascism from a philo-semantic perspective which is a fallacy and any professional historian who specialized in totalitarian ideologies could attest to that.

You mentioned that the murder of Govoni brothers (by the way, it was not only brothers but the whole 7 siblings of the Govoni family who were slaughtered including a sister) as a reaction to the murder of Cervi brothers (care to share more about it since I am not too familiar about it). But how about

- the murder of Ugazio family by partisans in August 28th 1944 at Galliate where Giuseppe Ugazio, 43 years old, secretary of the local fascist branch were beaten to death and his two daughters, Cornelia, 21 years old and Mirka, 13 years old were gang-raped before having their skulls crushed by buttstrokes.

- the slaughter of Trimboli family of Omegna in 1944 by communist partisans

- the murder of Signore Balestra and his aged wife on April 25th 1945 at San Remo by communist partisans, allegedly for selling foodstuffs to the local Black Brigade units

- the merciless killing of Giulio Bruni and his two teenage sons who were part of the San Remo Black Brigade as well as 15 year old Giovambattista Siri whose mother begged the partisan leader to release his son. The partisan leader asked the mother to pay ransom money whom she did paid but still her son was shot.

- the sadistic gang rape of 13 years old Giuseppina Ghersi from the village of Zinola who knew nothing about politics, who was sexually tortured and then brutally murdered by communist partisans.

- the depraved massacre of the Bonan family, 1945 by communist partisans. Lucindo Bonan, his wife Anita and daughter Maria were killed because the only crime was that Lucindo had been a staff sergeant in the GNR

- the cold-blooded slaughter of the Tescari family at Torreselle di Isola, Vincentina, April 5, 1945. Guerrino Tescari, his pregnant wife, Assunta and his 5 children were beaten and then thrown alive into a shaft by communist partisans

I had even more, where the "patriotic" partisans who murdered priests and even their own partisan comrades, some even AFTER the war has ended (like the Policia Partigiani during late 40s, the Volante Rossa communist terror in 1947 and the "Robinson" Affair in 1960s)