Italian Invasion of Egypt from the AOI

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Patton42
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Italian Invasion of Egypt from the AOI

#1

Post by Patton42 » 29 May 2013, 18:28

I have read in several places that after the Italians conquest of British Somaliland, they had planned to use these forces to turn north and, coordinating with the 10th Army, act as one of the arms in a pincher attack to claim victory in Egypt. But how realistic is this? Were they supplied properly to march across Sudan, facing opposition as they moved? Or more to the point, did they have the ability to supply themselves properly; Transport, provisions??? Would this not have left them terribly shorthanded in Somalia against counter-attack? Was there any real studies made by the Italians on the feasibility of this undertaking? Any info is appreciated.

Thanks!

century1808
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Re: Italian Invasion of Egypt from the AOI

#2

Post by century1808 » 25 Jul 2014, 11:06

I read somewhere that if in Autumn 1935 the British had closed the Suez Canal to Italian shipping there were considerations to forget about Abyssinia and instead move north to support Italian operations against Egypt. The 7th CCNN Division in Libya was already earmarked for this mission and given the fact that Britain had few troops in Egypt and the Royal Navy had 'vacated' the E. Mediterranean it could have been a very precarious situation.

Who knows, British and French mobilization may have started in 1936 instead of 1939 if Egypt had been lost to the Italians....


Dili
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Re: Italian Invasion of Egypt from the AOI

#3

Post by Dili » 25 Jul 2014, 15:53

If Egypt was with just a small garrison it was probably possible supply a brigade sized truck based unit against it. But i don't think it was possible more than that.
Of course they could go by sea from Massaua and land somewhere north nearer Suez but then there is Royal Navy.

I am not aware of any plans, but it is an issue i didn't went trying to find.

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Patton42
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Re: Italian Invasion of Egypt from the AOI

#4

Post by Patton42 » 28 Jul 2014, 19:15

Thanks. I just find it hard to imagine that there was the logistical ability for the Italians to pull off bringing forces from the south. In Churchill's 'Their Finest Hour' , the PM himself thought his military leaders in the theater put to much credence in this threat, and his desire was to further bolster his forces in Egypt instead of leaving to large a force to guard against a possible Italian advance from the south.

If anyone has other thoughts on this, I would appreciate hearing.

Thanks.

amcl
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Re: Italian Invasion of Egypt from the AOI

#5

Post by amcl » 29 Jul 2014, 02:48

Patton42 wrote:Thanks. I just find it hard to imagine that there was the logistical ability for the Italians to pull off bringing forces from the south. In Churchill's 'Their Finest Hour' , the PM himself thought his military leaders in the theater put to much credence in this threat, and his desire was to further bolster his forces in Egypt instead of leaving to large a force to guard against a possible Italian advance from the south.

If anyone has other thoughts on this, I would appreciate hearing.
We're talking about the equivalent of Warsaw to Moscow and back again, on worse roads. Not hard. Impossible, or as close as makes no difference.

As for those large forces in Sudan, I believe that the reality was less impressive. Sudan was defended by the Sudan Defence Force - fielding around 4,500 men in June 1940, some of whom deployed facing Libya - and three British battalions until the arrival of the understrength 5 Indian Division in September 1940. Now three British battalions was one more than the two that had customarily been present in Sudan in peacetime, and the SDF was being expanded, but large seems like something of an exaggeration.

Cheers,

Angus

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Patton42
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Re: Italian Invasion of Egypt from the AOI

#6

Post by Patton42 » 29 Jul 2014, 14:50

Thanks, I agree Agnus, seems like it would be impossible to pull off, yet I have heard this often but could not imagine to be so. I agree, the force in Sudan was not large, but in "Their Finest Hour" Churchill published several letters he had written at the time were he was concerned to many resources were being diverted to that theater. I believe he thought as we do, that it was just not a real possibility.

Thanks.

Orwell1984
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Re: Italian Invasion of Egypt from the AOI

#7

Post by Orwell1984 » 30 Jul 2014, 18:47

Image

This book was just released in paperback.
Table of contents can be found here:
http://www.routledge.com/books/details/9780415646246/

Looks like it might be a worthwhile read for those interested in further study.

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Attrition
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Re: Italian Invasion of Egypt from the AOI

#8

Post by Attrition » 03 Feb 2016, 22:36

http://ethos.bl.uk/OrderDetails.do?did= ... os.3708984

The British defence of Egypt 1935 - September 1939. Morewood, S. not quite as expensive.

Dili
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Re: Italian Invasion of Egypt from the AOI

#9

Post by Dili » 04 Feb 2016, 20:45

If the authors are unable to read Italian it is probably more regurgitation of what already exists.

Orwell1984
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Re: Italian Invasion of Egypt from the AOI

#10

Post by Orwell1984 » 04 Feb 2016, 21:01

Dili wrote:If the authors are unable to read Italian it is probably more regurgitation of what already exists.
One author.
And he lists I documenti diplomatici Italani Ottova Serie 1935-1939 and other Italian documents in his primary sources.

Dili
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Re: Italian Invasion of Egypt from the AOI

#11

Post by Dili » 06 Feb 2016, 02:11

That is good like it should be done. It don't garantees the quality of the work but at least have the correct strategy to accomplish it.

If the authors are unable to read Italian an option has been to get Italian authors to help.

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Attrition
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Re: Italian Invasion of Egypt from the AOI

#12

Post by Attrition » 06 Feb 2016, 10:59

Oh, the thesis isn't available after all. Not as inexpensive as I'd hoped. Apols

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Re: Italian Invasion of Egypt from the AOI

#13

Post by jwsleser » 07 Feb 2016, 01:22

Patton42

Yes there was some fairly serious discussion about a possible operation from the A.O.I. into Sudan and possibly further into Egypt. Le operazioni in Africa orientale tomo I capitolo IX (pages 127-142) covers the strategic options debated after the initial operations. Document 76 in tomo II is the memorandum discussing the options.

The problem was the strategic isolation of the A.O.I. and how to break it. As has been stated, logistics and the poor operational situation of the Italian forces put a end to any detailed considerations, but an operation into Sudan only was looked into at further length. The idea of a combined A.O.I. and Libyan operation never went beyond the day-dreaming stage.

Pista! Jeff
Jeff Leser

Infantrymen of the Air

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Patton42
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Re: Italian Invasion of Egypt from the AOI

#14

Post by Patton42 » 08 Feb 2016, 19:41

Thank you for the info!!!

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