Italian Submarine Aces?

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Paul oftheManCave
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Italian Submarine Aces?

#1

Post by Paul oftheManCave » 18 Oct 2014, 23:58

Hello,

I am wanting to know more about the Regia Marina's Submarine Captains who operated with the Axis prior to 1943.
Everybody knows of the German Aces but their Italian counterparts are rather unknown despite the fact that a some were very successful and a couple were awarded the Knight's Cross in addition to Italian awards.

Does anyone know of good sources I could look at in English (I have no skill in Italian language) or is able to post anything here?

thank you!
Paul
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http://tasmancave.blogspot.com

Paul oftheManCave
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Re: Italian Submarine Aces?

#2

Post by Paul oftheManCave » 19 Oct 2014, 17:40

Additionally, the information I have found varies greatly on number of ships and tonnages, some up to 10,000 differences.
What are the official sources?
Paul
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Re: Italian Submarine Aces?

#3

Post by Peter » 19 Oct 2014, 19:32

Try "Axis submarine successes" by Jürgen Rohwer, it chronologically lists all claims/sinkings, it names many of the ships sunk, precise tonnages and the sub/commander which sank them. In my research some of the Italian subs in the Atlantic were very successful.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Submarine-Succe ... +successes

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Re: Italian Submarine Aces?

#4

Post by Dili » 19 Oct 2014, 21:55


Paul oftheManCave
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Re: Italian Submarine Aces?

#5

Post by Paul oftheManCave » 20 Oct 2014, 04:08

Thanks for the quick replies Gents, appreciated.
I actually have ordered that book Jurgen- thanks for the recommendation!

What I am more after are the personal stories, like you can find for German Aces like Prien, Schepke and the like
There is a bit of information, but not lots, on the two leading Italian Aces, but not much on many of the others.
I am guessing its available in Italian books, and am hoping some of it has made it into English!
Paul
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http://tasmancave.blogspot.com

Orwell1984
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Re: Italian Submarine Aces?

#6

Post by Orwell1984 » 20 Oct 2014, 15:26

If you're looking for a narrative history with anecdotes in English, track down a copy Aldo Cocchia's book published as either Submarines Attacking or the Hunters Hunted. The author served in the Italian navy during WW2
Authors bio: http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl ... 6bih%3D708

Book info:
http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/677886
http://www.backcreekbooks.com/catalogs/submarines.php

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Re: Italian Submarine Aces?

#7

Post by Felix C » 26 Oct 2014, 02:41

Erminio Bagnasco's Submarines of WW2 has detail on Italian successes in WW2. Ironically Japanese submariners sank more merchant and warships. Not many targets in the Med unless it was a Malta convoy or coastal traffic in the Levant and working close inshore was dangerous. Most merchant sinkings were from the Bordeaux based boats in the Central and South Atlantic.

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Re: Italian Submarine Aces?

#8

Post by AginAf » 22 Nov 2018, 04:44

JAMES J. SADKOVICH'S THE ITALIAN NAVY IN WWII (Greenwood Press 1994, ISSN 0883-6884) offers a good profile of the Italian submarine service.

The Med presented a very poor natural protective environment for submarine warfare, and as a consequence, both the Italians and the Brits lost most of their submarines there - including many of the well respected British Royal Navy's "T' class submarine, including their top killer. Accordingly, sinking rates were low.

However, the comparatively small Regina Marina' sub flotilla that joined the Kriegsmarine in their bases on the French Atlantic coast did very well in the early days of the Battle of the Atlantic, sinking 568,573 tons, and damaging another 200,000 tons.

Following the partial surrender in 1943, the pro NAZI RM component did not deploy any subs to the French coast bases, thus missing the campaign costing disastrous losses by Dönitz's KM U Boat fleet in 1943-1945.
AginAf

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Re: Italian Submarine Aces?

#9

Post by Felix C » 22 Nov 2018, 23:52

AginAf wrote:
22 Nov 2018, 04:44
JAMES J. SADKOVICH'S THE ITALIAN NAVY IN WWII (Greenwood Press 1994, ISSN 0883-6884) offers a good profile of the Italian submarine service.

The Med presented a very poor natural protective environment for submarine warfare, and as a consequence, both the Italians and the Brits lost most of their submarines there - including many of the well respected British Royal Navy's "T' class submarine, including their top killer. Accordingly, sinking rates were low.

However, the comparatively small Regina Marina' sub flotilla that joined the Kriegsmarine in their bases on the French Atlantic coast did very well in the early days of the Battle of the Atlantic, sinking 568,573 tons, and damaging another 200,000 tons.

Following the partial surrender in 1943, the pro NAZI RM component did not deploy any subs to the French coast bases, thus missing the campaign costing disastrous losses by Dönitz's KM U Boat fleet in 1943-1945.
AginAf
Regarding the bold above, you are referring to British submarine success? It is in the same para so I presume so. Allied subs were very effective in the MTO. Moreso than other theaters.

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Re: Italian Submarine Aces?

#10

Post by Felix C » 22 Nov 2018, 23:55

Paul oftheManCave wrote:
19 Oct 2014, 17:40
Additionally, the information I have found varies greatly on number of ships and tonnages, some up to 10,000 differences.
What are the official sources?
Enrico Tazzoli was the highest scoring submarine and Lt. Gianfranco Gazzana-Priaroggia of the Leonardo da Vinci their ace.

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Pips
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Re: Italian Submarine Aces?

#11

Post by Pips » 23 Nov 2018, 03:59

Go here https://comandosupremo.com/gianfranco-g ... riaroggia/ to read about Italy's top scoring Submariner.

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Re: Italian Submarine Aces?

#12

Post by LColombo » 23 Nov 2018, 09:15

Felix C wrote:
22 Nov 2018, 23:55
Paul oftheManCave wrote:
19 Oct 2014, 17:40
Additionally, the information I have found varies greatly on number of ships and tonnages, some up to 10,000 differences.
What are the official sources?
Enrico Tazzoli was the highest scoring submarine and Lt. Gianfranco Gazzana-Priaroggia of the Leonardo da Vinci their ace.
The highest scoring submarine was Leonardo Da Vinci with 120,243 GRT, Enrico Tazzoli was second with 96,650 GRT. Gianfranco Gazzana Priaroggia (Da Vinci, Archimede) was the leading ace with 90,601 GRT, followed by Carlo Fecia di Cossato (Tazzoli) with 86,545 GRT.

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Re: Italian Submarine Aces?

#13

Post by Felix C » 23 Nov 2018, 15:44

I was going by ships sunk not tonnage

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Re: Italian Submarine Aces?

#14

Post by LColombo » 23 Nov 2018, 18:56

Submarine successes are usually measured by tonnage sunk, rather than by number of ships sunk. Otherwise, for example, a submarine that has sunk half a dozen sailing vessels/fishing boats would look more successful than one that has sunk a couple of troopships.

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Re: Italian Submarine Aces?

#15

Post by Felix C » 23 Nov 2018, 19:17

I have seen both. For example read Ben Bryant as the most successful British skipper because he sank the most ships, then some state Malcolm Wanklyn who sank the most tonnage. In some cases the leader is both tonnage and count leader as with Ger. Otto Kretschmer. I think in the USN case there is one leader for ships and one for tonnage.

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