Mussolini's Troubling Decline

Discussions on all aspects of Italy under Fascism from the March on Rome to the end of the war.
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J. Duncan
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Mussolini's Troubling Decline

#1

Post by J. Duncan » 18 Jun 2014, 11:24

I am reading a lot about Mussolini's fall - the time period following the Fascist council meeting of July 25, 1943 to his virtual "imprisonment" by the Germans as head of the puppet state of the Salo Republic.
What is most evident is the utter humiliation and desolation of Mussolini's life from this time forward.
What is also evident from the reading is that this is also the time period where Mussolini seems most vulnerable and "human" as opposed to the Fascist image of youthful vigor he displayed in his propaganda during the hey days of his regime.
One almost pities his existence. He knew he was going down, that everything he did was to no avail, aware of his failures and his humiliated position with Hitler and the Germans. Goebbel's Diaries is full of contempt for Mussolini, his family, the Ciano's, and Italy.
This period is full of drama....hated by his people, Italy torn apart, Mussolini wanting to retire from public life, only to be forced by Hitler into a sort of devil's pact to keep going, Hitler's forcing him to deal with Count Ciano in the harshest fashion - death to traitors -(no family considerations allowed), embracing his son-in-law Ciano over dinner knowing he was to turn him over to a kangaroo court, weeping at the inability to stop what he knew would take place (execution), angry and reproachful letters from his favorite daughter Edda, caught in the middle between two warring women (petacci and wife rachele), situated on Lake Garda, surrounded by SS spies, guards, and fascist radicals who want to hide their criminal activities behind his name, trying to wax philosophical amongst books, reading about Napoleon and Bismarck , (knowing he was a failure, already dead politically, spiritually, and soon to be: physically) ..all the while trying to escape from an angry wife and noisy grandchildren. Mussolini was also very sick physically - he thought he had cancer of the stomach. In the end, he was abandoned to his fate by the very man who tried to rescue his image.
Mussolini was an SOB - no question about that. He was a puffed up egomaniac when he was on top, but I think his declining years are a good place to look for a more humble and human Mussolini. It must have "sucked to be him" at that time.
I thought Hitler's comments to Mussolini about Ciano show his evil genius: "Ciano is a traitor to his country, to fascism, to the alliance with Germany, and to his family. Duce, Count Ciano is a traitor four times."

Sources / books: "The Goebbels Diaries 1942-1943"
"Mussolini: Twilight and Fall" (Roman Dombrowski)
"Mussolini" (Christopher Hibbert)
Ray Moseley "Last days of Mussolini"
Does anyone else have any insight into this period or have come across some of these accounts of his decline and downfall?

Dili
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Re: Mussolini's Troubling Decline

#2

Post by Dili » 19 Jun 2014, 18:20

Mussolini son died while testing a Piaggio P-108 4 engine bomber in 1942, that might have been a big hit on him.

I have no pity for him, even if he was less of a tyrant than Hitler of Stalin he was a Socialist and as such for him the State was the power above any person will.


J. Duncan
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Re: Mussolini's Troubling Decline

#3

Post by J. Duncan » 19 Jun 2014, 21:05

The son's name was Bruno...Mussolini wrote a book dedicated to him ("Memories of Bruno"). The book added to his unpopularity because many mothers had lost sons. They thought it poor taste for him to lament his own son, who died in an accident, while other sons who died fighting his wars were ignored.

AmYisroelChai
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Re: Mussolini's Troubling Decline

#4

Post by AmYisroelChai » 17 Dec 2014, 08:54

Having just read "The Pope (Pius 11) and Mussolini" by David Kertzer, Random House 2014, and "Mussolini's Italy, Life Under the Fascist Dictatorship" by R.J.B. Bosworth, Penguin Press 2006, it is clear that Mussolini's "decline" was not psycho-social; it was caused by the near total disasters of the Italian Fascist armed forces during the war. Mussolini's own Grand Council voted for his ouster on July 24-25, 1943, specifically for his disastrous failure as commander of the armed forces. Defeats in Greece, Yugoslavia, North Africa and especially on the Russian Eastern Front caused innumerable Italian casualties, all unexpected by the Italian people due to the promises made by "Il Duce" under the fascist slogan "Mussolini Is Never Wrong", which hung in every town square. With the successful Allied invasion of Sicily and the Allied advances up the Italian Boot, Mussolini was doomed. By the spring of 1943 Hitler had given up on Italy as a reliable ally, King Victor Emmanuel was in a state of panic and even the fascist leaning Pope, Pius 12, was having second thoughts, all due to the military defeats. Mussolini's ouster lead to the Nazi occupation of Rome and northern Italy, civil war between Partisans and Fascist/Nazi forces, and the transport of 7500 Jewish Italians to their deaths in Auschwitz. He may have made the trains run on time, but his train became a total wreck.

ML59
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Re: Mussolini's Troubling Decline

#5

Post by ML59 » 17 Dec 2014, 23:36

Mussolini was never the head of the Army and never managed military operations in any detail. In this respect, he was not a real military leader on a par with Adolf Hitler, marshal Antonescu or marshal Mannerheim, to cite just his alter-egos in the Axis field. He was ousted by his former "fascistissimi" supporters for his blatant political failures, for having started a war that had brought Italy to ruin and for his unwillingness to separate Italy's fortunes from that of Germany, when there was still a chance to do it. And how much the Italian people was fed up of Mussolini became truly apparent immediately after his arrest, when the huge organization of the Partito Fascista (millions of members in 1943) melted like snow under the sun.

Dili
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Re: Mussolini's Troubling Decline

#6

Post by Dili » 20 Jan 2015, 00:57

About Mussolini decline: Ciano Diary after the Duisburg convoy disaster November 1941:

L’ho detto anche a Mussolini, che continua ad essere depresso e che giudica - a ragione - la giornata di ieri quale la più umiliante dal principio della guerra. “Sono ormai 18 mesi che attendo una buona notizia, che non giunge mai. Sarei fiero di mandare anche io un telegramma come quello che Churchill ha mandato al suo Ammiraglio, ma invano da troppo tempo ne ricerco l’occasione.”

Translation:
...I also said it to Mussolini that continues to be depressed, and judges - with reason - the yesterday occurrence the most humiliating until now. Mussolini: "There went already 18 months that i expect just one good news that never arrive, would be proud to send a message like the one that Churchill sent to his Admiral, but never got the reason to in all this time."

durb
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Re: Mussolini's Troubling Decline

#7

Post by durb » 24 Jan 2015, 16:59

The little I know about the history of Italian fascism is that it can be divided in different time periods:

1) "The fighting years" 1919 - 1925. Organization of movement, taking over the state and consolidation of power - the last crisis was caused by the murder of Matteotti, which seems to be an "accident" rather than Mussolini´s personal order (it seems that he preffered softer methods like expatriation and imprisoment instead of political murders which created easily martyrs). Fascist movement used violence as its method to take control of the state and to remain in power, but the scale and scope was much less than that of the stalinist Soviet Union or Nazi Germany.

2) "The golden years" 1925 - 1936, when "Mussolini sempre ha ragione" (Mussolini always has the reason). Period of some productive proyects with agriculture and effective action against mafia clans in Sicily. It seems that this was a period when Mussolini was genuinely popular dictator and also respected statesman in abroad. For example Winston Churchill had quite a respect for him, although this has been dismissed as irrelevant in British history writing. In fact British for a long time hoped to have alliance with Mussolini and this affected strongly British foreing policy in 1930´s. It is noteworthy that by 1934-1936 Mussolini was not yet committed to alliance with Hitler, whom he watched with suspicion as well as some other prominent fascist figures who disliked the nazism and its racism.

3) "Taking the dangerous path" 1936 - 1939. The phase of over-confident imperialism, when the downfall began - one can ask if the conquest of Ethiopia was worth of all the sacrifices put in it - however this step was practically accepted in Europe also by most liberal democrats despite the reports of chemical warfare etc. Anyway it seems to me that the decline started here - the economical prize was high and the gains were questionable. But OK, it went through without too much trouble and could be hailed as a victory. Then came the involvement in Spain - again a very expensive affair and it produced some propaganda defeats, although it is difficult to imagine that Mussolini could have watched just idly the happenings in Spain. The most dangerous path was the step-by-step alliance with Germany. It lead to infamous Racial Laws and the alienation of Jews from the fascist movement. Fascim became a racist movement copying nazism. Committing in German alliance was the most fateful decision which Mussolini withouth doubt later regretted in his last years. It is noteworthy that such prominent figures like Italo Balbo, secret police chief Arturo Bocchini and even the old Gabriele D´Annunzio were against the alliance of Germany - they were far-sighted enough to see that it was too dangerous path. But Mussolini did not listen the warnings and opinions of other people - he had become over-confident dictator who "ha sempre ragione". He would learn by hard way that "Mussolini ha sempre ragione" was not true.

4) "From war to defeat" 1940 - 1945. About this is enough written and analyzed, so I will not repeat it much. Mussolini joined the war with erroneus assumption it would be soon over and Italy would get easy gains with little sacrifices. This proved to be huge blunder. Mussolini was downed to be a puppet of Germans and his violent death was not mourned by most Italians.

AmYisroelChai
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Re: Mussolini's Troubling Decline

#8

Post by AmYisroelChai » 27 Jan 2015, 02:27

To the Point: Had Italy won some of its battles and all of its wars, no matter what anyone thought of its ties to Hitler and Germany, or its evolving racialist policies, or its cynical economic policies, Italy would have remained Fascist in Mussolini's image until the end of time. Although Mussolini did not directly command the armed forces, as Hitler stupidly did during the war, Il Duce was the absolute head of state, taking on numerous official titles making him total commander of the armed forces and Italy's foreign policy, to make war and create an empire. As creator and head of the Grand Council of Fascism, which killed and succeeded the legitimate Chamber of Deputies and Italian Senate, Mussolini created the "Italian agenda", in war and peace. As Dictator, Prime Minister, Foreign Minister, President of the Grand Council of Fascism, Commander-In-Chief of the Militia, and Minister of the Navy, Army and Air Force, and with militarism and nationalism the cornerstones of fascism, he was directly responsible for Italy's military disasters, which directly led to his demise. Had he kept off of the "dangerous path", history would be a lot less bloody, and he would be looked upon much differently.

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