Repressions during government of DUCE

[zaptiè]

That when occupied for some weeks Trieste kill also 50 New Zelanda Soldiers

[Mark V.]

So what exactly has the Italian terror to do with the Yugoslav terror other then obvious marginalization of the former?

[SM79Sparviero]

So what exactly has the Italian terror to do with the Yugoslav terror other then obvious marginalization of the former?

It was not really an "italian terror"; it was more precisely a deeply wrong attempt to transform people who were not italian into italians and a country which was not italian into an italian one.......I am speaking about Slovenia and the interior-southern regions of Croatia which had never been Italian.

Fascist gouvernment made the error to impose a new administration , a new money,a new language and a new way of thinking tho those territories which had always followed deeply different ways....more important, according to a deprecable italian custom the officials and prefects sent for the local management and gouvernment could be native of Napoli, Rome, Genova or Catania or other cities , ofter sent to Yougoslavian territories for a discipline punishment ( as alternative they could be often sent to Somali or Ethiopia) , all with a common deficiency:they didn't have any knowledge or competence about the customs and the problems of those people that they were called to rule, neither they were interested to learn any data about their new duties..

It is not surprising that the outcome was mediocre and the answer of Yougoslavian people was worse, with a consequent cluster of arrests, confinations, segregations,concentration camps etc.(from Gospel:"who is without a sin launchs the first stone"the first concentration camps for men women and children were invented by lord Kirchner in Transvaal, from the oldest democratic gouvernment in Europe)

Italian gouvernment would have done better to withdraw Slovenia and the southern Croatia and to keep and save for an italianization those coast territories which had really Italian roots, Istria and Fiume .

The answer from Tito's partisans was disproportionate and uselessly brutal to those civilian people who had not any responsability for the errors of Fascist gouvernment.

[StanislavB.]

But what about Jews? I've read there was about 7.000 in camps and 6.000 of them dead.

[Lupo Solitario]

But what about Jews? I've read there was about 7.000 in camps and 6.000 of them dead.

before or after 1943?

Only after italian armistice of 1943 it had been applied to italian territory the german rule about jews. But in this case Italy was no different by any other german occupied area in europe.
Before 1943, the italian racist laws of 1938 didn't include neither death or deportation for jews, neither italian had to give jews to germans. Opposite in many cases jews preferred to reach the italian areas in occupied europe not to be taken by germans.
Before 1938, there was not an italian anti-jew law and there were jew fascist leaders

[StanislavB.]

After 1943. It's from Russian article about Berlusconi who said that Mussolini ''never killed anyone''.

Åâðåéñêàÿ îáùèíà Èòàëèè âûðàçèëà âîçìóùåíèå ïî ïîâîäó âûñêàçûâàíèé Áåðëóñêîíè. Êàê èçâåñòíî, Áåíèòî Ìóññîëèíè ïðàâèë Èòàëèåé ñ 1922 ïî 1943 ãîä.  1938 ãîäó îí ââåë â Èòàëèè àíòèñåìèòñêèå çàêîíû, êîòîðûå â êîíå÷íîì èòîãå ïðèâåëè ê äåïîðòàöèè 7 òûñÿ÷ åâðååâ â íåìåöêèå êîíöëàãåðÿ. Ñ÷èòàåòñÿ, ÷òî îêîëî 6 òûñÿ÷ èç íèõ ïîãèáëè.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/russian/news/n ... 103056.stm

translation:

Jewish community of Italy expressed indignation about saying of Berlusconi. As it known, Mussolini governed Italy from 1922 to 1943 year. In 1938 he confirmed the antisemitic laws in Italy, that finally lead to deportation of 7 thousands jews into german concentration camps. It's considered that about 6 thousands of the died.

However, I've read the opposite view in the articles of Berkovich, who writes that italians didn't executed orders of deportation and saved jews from death.

[Lupo Solitario]

after 1943 the fascist RSI supported the german anti-jew policy, including the deportation in germany of italian jews.
At the same time, many italians (including some fascist) tried to help and hide jews.

The racial laws of 1938 included the removal of jews from all italian state offices, the denial of many civilian right and restrictions to private property for jews, but didn't include losing personal freedom, being jailed or deported in any way or being killed for being jew.

[StanislavB.]

Can someone made a comment on this article from Telegraph.co.uk?

Mussolini sent Jews to die in Nazi camps
By Bruce Johnston in Rome

Fascist Italy's reputation for being far less evil than Nazi Germany may have to be revised after a new book accused Benito Mussolini of being an enthusiastic accomplice in the slaughter of Europe's Jews.
Rather than being a reluctant participant in the Holocaust, The Shoah of Italy argues that "Il Duce" forged a secret deal with Hitler to hand Jews to the SS and was far more anti-semitic than once thought.
Mussolini was voicing anti-semitic views as early as 1936 and his Racial Laws of 1938 reflected the regime's "biological racism", the book's author, Michele Sarfatti, claims.
Until now, the passing of the laws that made Jews second-class citizens has been written off as an attempt to curry favour with the Führer.
Italian fascism could "not be accused of genocide or being marred by the Holocaust", one historian of the period maintained.
Correspondence between officials from Mussolini's puppet Republic of Salo and the police suggests a pact under which the fascists would transfer Jews to the Germans and death in the camps, Mr Sarfatti says.
The Republic of Salo routinely arrested Jews and sent them to Fossoli, a camp near Modena, where the SS took control and deported them to Germany, he writes.
Since Mussolini had been aware for some time of the fate that awaited the Jews, Mr Sarfatti concludes that Il Duce progressed from withdrawing their civil rights to permitting their physical destruction.
Mussolini "took part voluntarily and knowingly in the Shoah", he claims.
A rival historian, Giovanni Sabbatucci, blames "a general complicity by the Fascists of Salo in the deportation and extermination of the Jews".

[SM79Sparviero]

Correspondence between officials from Mussolini's puppet Republic of Salo and the police suggests a pact under which the fascists would transfer Jews to the Germans and death in the camps, Mr Sarfatti says.
The Republic of Salo routinely arrested Jews and sent them to Fossoli, a camp near Modena, where the SS took control and deported them to Germany, he writes.
Since Mussolini had been aware for some time of the fate that awaited the Jews, Mr Sarfatti concludes that Il Duce progressed from withdrawing their civil rights to permitting their physical destruction.
Mussolini "took part voluntarily and knowingly in the Shoah", he claims.

The paper shows a contraddiction: if the Salò republic was a puppet state Mussolini and any other leaders could not really choose, with this presupposition it is impossible to know if il Duce "took part voluntarily and knowingly in the Shoah" or if he was forced to support Third Reich by the threat of retaliations on italian people .

A 18 year old boy who voluntarily joined Salò republic could be right or wrong, he could follow a wrong way imposed by years of suggestion and by the personal fascination of a dictator-hero, or the right way of the respect to an obligation towards the old allied betrayed by a king who could not face his duty.
When we were 18 years old we ran to butterflies and to wrong ways, we were angry and happy in the same time, anyone is potentially violent and perhaps dangerous....
I don' t sincerely know which was the way for each soldier of RSI but I surely know that an Italian 18 year boy didn't choose RSI in 1943 with the specifical purpose to persecute Jewish people.

[zaptiè]

it' interesting to kniw that in Italy where also the "discriminate Jews" , Jews free of the restirction , in facts non Jews . Was a large category ( Italians Jews where 30.000 at the time) , it included ( with respective families) : decorated for War valor, war volunteers , war injurieds, and members of the fascist party before october 1922 . Before 1938 many Jews where fascists; where jews ministers and generals ( the only italian general died in Spain civil war was Jew) and also Military Rabbins in the Army and in 1938 where more than 200 Jews nofficiers in MVSN ( blaks Shirts).
History is complex !

[zaptiè]

sorry for my bad english!!!!

[SuzetteHollingsworth]

I am so grateful for these posts!! I have been looking everywhere for information on concentration camps in Italy during World War 2. I am fascinated by Milac's first-hand account and now have his book "Resistance, Imprisonment and Forced Labor" in my Amazon cart.

Mr. Milac, do you know
Who was in charge of Rab - who was running the camp? Would there have been any visitors to these officers? Did the officers have family there and where were they living? Would they have seen any of this?

I cannot imagine being subjected to such hate, cruelty, and suffering. I shudder to think how it would have changed me; I'm sure my heart would be completely black. Clearly some people are stronger.

I read that Ferramonti di Tarsia was a completely different experience - though imprisoned and sleeping in barracks, the prisoners there were fed and none were killed or subjected to torture due to the director of the camp, Paolo Salvatore, and the Capuchin monk, Fra Callisto Lopinot.(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferramonti_di_Tarsia) I am interested to know how some managed to do the "right" thing in a Nazi environment where there was pressure to do evil (or deny/ignore) out of a self-preservation instinct. It doesn't justify it, but it was the norm so I am interested in the exceptional souls who resisted.

Yes, I can understand being in denial to save oneself and one's family - but to ignore the truth and the suffering of others years later when one is in no danger whatsoever is disturbing.

[Oasis]

Hi SuzetteHollingsworth, try also:

http://it.anarchopedia.org/Campi_di_int ... _per_slavi
http://gonarsmemorial.eu/index.php?opti ... &Itemid=28
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_and_Italy
http://www.criminidiguerra.it/
http://www.liceoquadri.it/gricordo/Stor ... be2010.pdf
http://italy.indymedia.org/news/2005/11/925596.php
and many others of various opinions...

the majority are in italian language

Toni

[SuzetteHollingsworth]

WOW, thank you Toni!
I don't speak Italian unfortunately, so I am working on getting these translated. Found one I could read right off, though!

[Dili]

You might be interested in this concerning Jews, Italian Army and Fascists

The Righteous Enemy http://vimeo.com/4355886