Fascism and aviation?
Fascism and aviation?
To me it seems that aviation was something in importance in the fascist Italy. Some well-known pilots like Italo Balbo hold important positions in the fascist movement. I have read that even the Benito Mussolini took flying lessons and it is well known that his sons Bruno and Vittorio (IIRC) became pilots.
I have read also about the Italian Aviazione Legionaria (AL) in Spanish Civil War - to me it seems that it got quite a lot of attention in newsreels (I have seen some Luce films).
How important was the aviation in the fascist propaganda and in the identity building of "new" Italy?
Did Benito Mussolini learn to fly himself and this shown in propaganda films?
Was it OK also for women to become pilots in fascist Italy?
I have read also about the Italian Aviazione Legionaria (AL) in Spanish Civil War - to me it seems that it got quite a lot of attention in newsreels (I have seen some Luce films).
How important was the aviation in the fascist propaganda and in the identity building of "new" Italy?
Did Benito Mussolini learn to fly himself and this shown in propaganda films?
Was it OK also for women to become pilots in fascist Italy?
Re: Fascism and aviation?
Utmost importance. Aviation was the most fascist of armed forces. The navy was strongly monarchist. And shows how strong was the monarchy and how Mussolini had to placate it with billions of lires in the 30's.
Yes, Mussolini was a flier.
Not like in England, US or even germany.
Yes, Mussolini was a flier.
Not like in England, US or even germany.
Re: Fascism and aviation?
About the connection of aviation and fascism I have read also that for many Italian pilots who went to Spanish Civil War it was truly a ideological war. As the Spanish Republican government had declared itself antifascist, at least some of these pilots made statements how strongly fascist they were fighting against antifascism. For one part perhaps propaganda, but for another part maybe genuine claims. Of course adventurous spirit and chance to have combat experience might have been other motifs to go to Spanish war.
Anyway, my impression is that Italian airmen in Spanish Civil War were all very willing volunteers and happily accepted to be labelled as fascists. The Italian ground force CTV in Spain was perhaps less ideologically motivated - I have read that some of CTV volunteers were motivated mostly by the promises of good daily allowances.
I remember to have seen some futurist paintings and poems regarding aviation in the fascist-era Italy. What I remember is a poem which had a title "Spin over the Bay of Naples" and which was quite funny. However, can not remember whose work it was, perhaps it was from Marinetti.
Anyway, the relationship between fascism and aviation could perhaps be interesting enough theme for a entire book or series of articles.
Anyway, my impression is that Italian airmen in Spanish Civil War were all very willing volunteers and happily accepted to be labelled as fascists. The Italian ground force CTV in Spain was perhaps less ideologically motivated - I have read that some of CTV volunteers were motivated mostly by the promises of good daily allowances.
I remember to have seen some futurist paintings and poems regarding aviation in the fascist-era Italy. What I remember is a poem which had a title "Spin over the Bay of Naples" and which was quite funny. However, can not remember whose work it was, perhaps it was from Marinetti.
Anyway, the relationship between fascism and aviation could perhaps be interesting enough theme for a entire book or series of articles.
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Re: Fascism and aviation?
Brief article here:
"Flight as Propaganda in Fascist Italy"
http://www.nathanieledwards.com/2011/11 ... italy.html
I would also recommend a book used as a reference in the above article:
"Italo Balbo: A Fascist Life" by Claudio G. Segre.
http://www.amazon.ca/Italo-Balbo-A-Fasc ... 0520071999
Balbo was one of the pioneering fascist aviators. In the late 30's early 40's, his transatlantic flight in 1933 from Rome to Chicago was a huge showpiece of Italian aviation. His name "Balbo" became used as a term to describe large formations of aircraft .
Youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s17Mu7_Q2Q4
From Italy to the Americas: Italo Balbo's 1930 and 1933 Seaplane Squadrons
"Flight as Propaganda in Fascist Italy"
http://www.nathanieledwards.com/2011/11 ... italy.html
I would also recommend a book used as a reference in the above article:
"Italo Balbo: A Fascist Life" by Claudio G. Segre.
http://www.amazon.ca/Italo-Balbo-A-Fasc ... 0520071999
Balbo was one of the pioneering fascist aviators. In the late 30's early 40's, his transatlantic flight in 1933 from Rome to Chicago was a huge showpiece of Italian aviation. His name "Balbo" became used as a term to describe large formations of aircraft .
Youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s17Mu7_Q2Q4
From Italy to the Americas: Italo Balbo's 1930 and 1933 Seaplane Squadrons
Re: Fascism and aviation?
durb wrote: Anyway, my impression is that Italian airmen in Spanish Civil War were all very willing volunteers and happily accepted to be labelled as fascists.
No one was "labeled" a Fascist because being a Fascist wasn't a label imposed by outsiders. The persons that were Fascist agreed with an ideology they themselves called Fascism.
- Ironmachine
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Re: Fascism and aviation?
Being a Fascist may have not been a label imposed by outsiders, but being called a Fascist was certainly something that depended on outsiders. In the SCW, for the Republicans anyone on the National side was a Fascist, or at least could be called that, even it he wasn't. Whether they happily accepted that label or not was up to the person in question, and that I think is the point made by durb.
Re: Fascism and aviation?
Durb was talking about voluntary Italian pilots.
- phylo_roadking
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Re: Fascism and aviation?
It should be remembered that this wasn't unique to the Italians - the Luftwaffe also saw themselves and were seen as very much in the vanguard of National Socialism, after all...
As well as the very specific attempts by Mussolini and the fascists to use aviation as a flag-waving vehicle for the Italian flag to bee seen breaking records all over the world...there was something in the mind of the public about the dashing young men that dared the skies in what was still very marginal, high-performance aircraft - that could bite back HARD. Witness Douglas Bader...
It was ALSO an era when, post-WWI and not very post- it, after all, aviation was still a massive spectator sport, with flying circuses, air shows, barnstormers etc. attracting audiences around the world.
As early as 1941 the Allies...well, the Ally was fully aware of the psychological link between Nazism/Fascism and aviation. And authors and commentators were writing about it in not-flattering terms, with many commentators fearing the link between daring aviators and political extremeism in the wake of the Battle of Britain...
Hard to find, nowadays, but scope out a copy of Rex Warners' The Aerodrome...
As well as the very specific attempts by Mussolini and the fascists to use aviation as a flag-waving vehicle for the Italian flag to bee seen breaking records all over the world...there was something in the mind of the public about the dashing young men that dared the skies in what was still very marginal, high-performance aircraft - that could bite back HARD. Witness Douglas Bader...
It was ALSO an era when, post-WWI and not very post- it, after all, aviation was still a massive spectator sport, with flying circuses, air shows, barnstormers etc. attracting audiences around the world.
As early as 1941 the Allies...well, the Ally was fully aware of the psychological link between Nazism/Fascism and aviation. And authors and commentators were writing about it in not-flattering terms, with many commentators fearing the link between daring aviators and political extremeism in the wake of the Battle of Britain...
Hard to find, nowadays, but scope out a copy of Rex Warners' The Aerodrome...
Twenty years ago we had Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Steve Jobs. Now we have no Cash, no Hope and no Jobs....
Lord, please keep Kevin Bacon alive...
Lord, please keep Kevin Bacon alive...
- Ironmachine
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Re: Fascism and aviation?
So was I.Dili wrote:Durb was talking about voluntary Italian pilots.
Re: Fascism and aviation?
Italian pilots were all volunteers to my knowledge and even selected among those willing to go to Spain. The commander Bonomi of Aviación del Tercio (nominally aviation section of Spanish Foreign Legion, practically Italian air contingent in Spain) did put it quite straightforward: "When in Spain started the National Movement (military rebellion) as a reaction against the tirany of Popular Front it were not the Nationalist who proclaimed themselves fascist. It has been the (Republican) government which has declared itself antifascist...has it not asked the whole scum of world to fight against fascism? We (Italian flyers in Spain) are all fascist, very fascists and then why does it wonder that we accept their challenge and respond with our powerful bombs and fast machineguns?" - this is from Rugiero Bonomi´s book Viva la muerte, published in Rome 1941. Although the book is surely a piece of propaganda of its time, it still may reflect to some extent the feelings of Italian airmen combatting in Spanish Civil War. If the enemy called them fascists, it was not a problem to respond: yes, we are fascists. And say it strongly.
Comparison to Legion Condor might be interesting. I do not know how strongly German pilots felt or were motivated by the ideological battle against "reds" - surely it played some part in their thinking. For those openly national socialistic perhaps the ace pilot Harro Harder was the most obvious for decorating his plane with a swastika (against an order of Legion Condor that Germans should avoid all markings which would connect their aircraft directly to Germany!).
Of course in all totalitarian systems the political reliability of military pilots was carefully checked - if there was any chance them being politically unreliable and thus defect when chance, there was no way for them to have decent military career in air force. And this check must have been more careful when it comes to send airmen to fight in the civil war of foreign country. This applied also to Soviet Union where the political reliability question was even more carefully checked than in fascist Italy. Also some politically "unliked" Spanish Republican pilots were not allowed to fly (and some Spanish pilots were not accepted by Soviets to fly in Soviet commanded units due to political views).
Comparison to Legion Condor might be interesting. I do not know how strongly German pilots felt or were motivated by the ideological battle against "reds" - surely it played some part in their thinking. For those openly national socialistic perhaps the ace pilot Harro Harder was the most obvious for decorating his plane with a swastika (against an order of Legion Condor that Germans should avoid all markings which would connect their aircraft directly to Germany!).
Of course in all totalitarian systems the political reliability of military pilots was carefully checked - if there was any chance them being politically unreliable and thus defect when chance, there was no way for them to have decent military career in air force. And this check must have been more careful when it comes to send airmen to fight in the civil war of foreign country. This applied also to Soviet Union where the political reliability question was even more carefully checked than in fascist Italy. Also some politically "unliked" Spanish Republican pilots were not allowed to fly (and some Spanish pilots were not accepted by Soviets to fly in Soviet commanded units due to political views).
Re: Fascism and aviation?
It is not correct. The way it was written conveys the message that their Fascist identity was defined by others, and they just take a jump in it.Ironmachine wrote:So was I.Dili wrote:Durb was talking about voluntary Italian pilots.
This obviously has to do of use of "Fascist" as an accusatory word than an ideological one in modern times.
- Ironmachine
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Re: Fascism and aviation?
It is indeed correct. What is not correct is the way you understand what I wrote. They were labelled as Fascists by their enemies, that's a fact. Whether they identified themselves as Fascists previously and how they feel about being called that are different matters, matters about which I made no statement.Dili wrote:It is not correct. The way it was written conveys the message that their Fascist identity was defined by others, and they just take a jump in it.
Actually, the republicans freely used "Fascist" in the SCW as an accusatory word.Dili wrote:This obviously has to do of use of "Fascist" as an accusatory word than an ideological one in modern times.
Re: Fascism and aviation?
So you now disingenuous forget how this started?
Durb is not a republican in SCW.
Durb is not a republican in SCW.
- Ironmachine
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Re: Fascism and aviation?
Neither is he a National in SCW, so what? If you were talking about Durb's post when you wrote "The way it was written conveys the message that their Fascist identity was defined by others, and they just take a jump in it", then I can only say that I didn't get that idea from his message, but after all both my opinion and yours about his post are merely subjective. However, I thought you were talking about my post, and that was the reason for my answer.Dili wrote:So you now disingenuous forget how this started?
Durb is not a republican in SCW.
I'm not disingenuous about how this started, it is just that I don't go around looking for obscure motivations behind other people's posts; when there are, they usually show without looking for them. I don't think Durb has any "hidden agenda" in his posts, nor has he shown (in my eyes) any "Fascist" preference. I think he made a perfectly reasonable question about the ideological motivation of the pilots of the Aviazione Legionaria.
Regards.
Re: Fascism and aviation?
When it comes to Spanish Civil War, the only reasonable option in my opinion is try to be as neutral as possible when studying its history. In my country (Finland) there was also a Civil War between socialist "Reds" and bourgeois "Whites" back in 1918 and I have family roots of fighters of both camps (my father´s side was "white" and some of my mother´s side were "red"). I have heard the old family stories (by my both grandmothers) and studied that history and I respect their choice of the time - they chose what they believed to be right and fought for it.
We can and sometimes even should disagree with the choices what people of the past made, but we must try to understand them. That was my point when it regards to Italian flyers who participated in the Spanish Civil War at the Nationalist side. To my knowledge there were also some Italian flyers at a the other side of SCW too.
But going to topic:
Italy in my opinion is quite unique in its way how the totalitarian ideology or better said system was connected to aviation. Of course the aviation was seen in other countries too as the symbol of dynamic progress in 1920´s and 1930´s and this was even more accentuated in countries with totalitarian ideologies. Soviets had their famous pole pilots and Stalin was genuinely interested in aviation. Germans built the new Luftwaffe rapidly in few years from nothing, and there is no doubt that Hitler too was quite interested in aviation matters. However, only in Italy did the dictator himself took the effort to learn to fly himself as well as two of his sons. And not to forget figures like Italo Balbo or Gabriele d´Annunzio or Aldo Finzi. Italy was not the most advanced country when it came to the aviation industry and technology, but somehow fascism of all ideologies or governing systems seems unique with its direct personal links with the aviation.
The youtube recommended by Orwell is quite good introduction to this theme: Youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s17Mu7_Q2Q4
We can and sometimes even should disagree with the choices what people of the past made, but we must try to understand them. That was my point when it regards to Italian flyers who participated in the Spanish Civil War at the Nationalist side. To my knowledge there were also some Italian flyers at a the other side of SCW too.
But going to topic:
Italy in my opinion is quite unique in its way how the totalitarian ideology or better said system was connected to aviation. Of course the aviation was seen in other countries too as the symbol of dynamic progress in 1920´s and 1930´s and this was even more accentuated in countries with totalitarian ideologies. Soviets had their famous pole pilots and Stalin was genuinely interested in aviation. Germans built the new Luftwaffe rapidly in few years from nothing, and there is no doubt that Hitler too was quite interested in aviation matters. However, only in Italy did the dictator himself took the effort to learn to fly himself as well as two of his sons. And not to forget figures like Italo Balbo or Gabriele d´Annunzio or Aldo Finzi. Italy was not the most advanced country when it came to the aviation industry and technology, but somehow fascism of all ideologies or governing systems seems unique with its direct personal links with the aviation.
The youtube recommended by Orwell is quite good introduction to this theme: Youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s17Mu7_Q2Q4