who was the best italian general?

[tackleberry6]

Has anyone ever made a top ten list. I would like to see it.

[tackleberry6]

This guy on the Comando Supremo forum argues that Cadorna was responsible for the preparation of Mt. Grappa and the Piave river defenses. I rarely hear anything positive about Cadorna, maybe he should be on the list? It's always hard to rate Generals who fought using a war of attrition type of strategy. Look at Gen. LEE's reputation compared to Gen. Grant.

The Winter War, Mark S Thompson
"Cadorna won a notable success at Gorizia in 1916. One of the few allied triumphs of that year."
"Stabilizing the Italian front @ the Piave river, his brilliant move in beginning the fortification of Monte Grappa even before the Austrians and Germans launched their attack at Caporetto."

[Urmel]

Some of the stuff on Comando Supremo is good, some isn't. I have no idea into which category the statement above falls.

[tackleberry6]

Comando Supremo is pretty good. No website/forum is going to have all good stuff. It's the only place on the internet I've found a list of tanks used by the RSI.

No love out there for Cadorna?

[gargoyle]

While Cadorna had a few successes he mostly conducted an incompetent campaign, even by WWI standards. And not only tactically, his brutal treatment of the troops make him one of the worst Italian generals in my opinion. His practice of decimation, firing on his troops when surrendering, repeatedly ordering hopeless attacks, did as much to damage the morale and strength of the army as did the enemy. From what little I've read of the Italians fighting in France they acquitted themselves considerably better than they did under Cadorna. I would say that General Diaz was a much better general if for no other reason than that he abolished decimation and took other measures to greatly improve the conditions for the troops. His reforms went a long way to improve morale and fighting spirit in the Italian army.

[Panzermahn]

Thank you for this thread. In fact, many Italian generals/commander were not given the proper recognition due to the British propaganda that Italians are cowards especially during the NA campaign. This mentality perceived well among the Allies right until end of the war (it can be seen by the fact that even General Graziani's signature was not required during the surrender of the Army Group Liguria and another example is that the author Anthony Rogers' mentioned (in his book Churchill's Folly) that during a gathering of the Allied veterans of the Kos/Leros battles in the early 2000s, they invited the German veterans but not the Italians).

Personally I concurred that Marshal Giovanni Messe was the best Italian commander of WW2. His performance with the CSIR at the Eastern Front and later at Tunisia (Messe wanted to fight a last stand at the Tunisian pocket but Mussolini ordered him to surrender) despite the terrible condition of his troops were nothing short of miraculous. General Berganzoli, Armando Diaz were quite capable as well despite being under-equipped.

I would say Graziani was able to perform as he was due to the Italian forces being underequipped. Despite the shortcoming of Italian/RSI armed forces, Graziani as the commander of the Army Group Liguria was able to hold out the Allies as long as possible at North Italy.

Another forgotten commander was the Prince Amedeo, Duca di Aosta at the Italian Somalialand, holding out against overwhelming odds against the encirclement of the British and French forces which impressed his opponents that he and his forces were granted honours of war.

Not forgetting the tragic General Antonio Gandin (who was decorated by the Germans with Iron Cross) and his Acqui division who was given unclear/contradictory orders by the Italian High Command due to the circumstances of the Italian armistice of 1943, fought against their former allies against all overwhelming odds.

I would say the most incompetent Italian General was Pietro Badoglio del Sabatino and it was mostly due to his spineless and weak behaviour that the overall reputation of the Italian armed forces in WW2 were tarnished by this man alone. Never once an officer with the rank of general/marshal of the armed forces of any nation in the military history could behave so despicably and so cowardly as Badoglio did.

[Urmel]

I would say the most incompetent Italian General was Pietro Badoglio del Sabatino and it was mostly due to his spineless and weak behaviour that the overall reputation of the Italian armed forces in WW2 were tarnished by this man alone. Never once an officer with the rank of general/marshal of the armed forces of any nation in the military history could behave so despicably and so cowardly as Badoglio did.

:roll: Sure, if only he had continued to support Nazism and the eradication of jews, gays, gypsies, and others, that would really have helped the reputation of the Italian armed forces.

[zaptiè]

General Guglielmo Nasi was the best . His epic resistence in Gondar was incredibile .

[Grofmontecristo]

General Guglielmo Nasi was the best . His epic resistence in Gondar was incredibile .

Interesting, recently I read a book "Non avevamo neanche la bandiera" (We didn't aven have a flag) by Aldo Millioni, an italian soldier in East Africa, he was captured at Gondar and says that gondar was able to resist so long because of the rainz season that lasted from may to october so the British couldn't reach Gondar. When the rains stopped Gondar fell.

[LWD]

If the quote from here:
http://www.strategypage.com/cic/docs/cic433a.asp
is accurate, i.e.:

"As long as there’s one alpino here, I’m here with him."
--
Generale maggiore Emilio Battisti,
Commanding the 4 Divisione alpina "Cuneense",
isolated on the Don, Jan. 18, 1943,
refusing an offer to be evacuated by air,
leading to seven years in a Soviet labor camp.

I'd say he rates an honorable mention on that alone.

[flakbait]

Agreed...it is 1 thing to command troops; it takes a special kind of leader to STAND with them, KNOWING with absolute certainty they will be defeated at best. And do not forget the very common Soviet attitude towards captive Axis troops...most did not survive `surrendering` except when doing so in very large numbers. And far fewer still survived captivity to ever return home...he was a BRAVE officer.

[LWD]

The above motivated me to try and find out a bit more about him. Not much seems to be on the web. This:
http://www.generals.dk/general/Battisti ... Italy.html
Confirms his capture and that he survived the war but no real details.
Can anyone else add some more info?

[Urmel]

Run this through Google autotranslate:

http://www.gruppoalpinirivasantostefano ... ttisti.htm

[VJK]

This is what I have on Battisti.

Very best regards,

VJK

[LWD]

Thank you both.