line wrote:All this nonsense about metal, bases, grain. Only Guderian didn't want to leave Czechoslovakia. Unfortunately, you don't know and don't want to know history.sandeepmukherjee196 wrote:I thought we are only discussing the battles in the fall - winter of 44 - 45? And btw Guderian, though an able ..even brilliant Panzer commander on the field..had little strategic vision and mental balance left by the end of the war. He screamed, raved and ranted..sometimes on Hitler's face. He insanely talks about abandoning the Baltics, Norway, Italy etc ! German war industry survived on Swedish iron ores. The supply of this material was protected from bases in the Norway and the Baltics.
The U Boot training fields were off the Baltics. Northern Italy was one of the few Axis granaries left in German hands. The czech munitions plants operated till the end. Guderian had plain lost it !
Cheers
Sandeep
German pockets in 1945
-
- Member
- Posts: 1524
- Joined: 07 Aug 2014, 06:34
Re: German pockets in 1945
-
- Member
- Posts: 1524
- Joined: 07 Aug 2014, 06:34
Re: German pockets in 1945
line wrote:All this nonsense about metal, bases, grain. Only Guderian didn't want to leave Czechoslovakia. Unfortunately, you don't know and don't want to know history.sandeepmukherjee196 wrote:I thought we are only discussing the battles in the fall - winter of 44 - 45? And btw Guderian, though an able ..even brilliant Panzer commander on the field..had little strategic vision and mental balance left by the end of the war. He screamed, raved and ranted..sometimes on Hitler's face. He insanely talks about abandoning the Baltics, Norway, Italy etc ! German war industry survived on Swedish iron ores. The supply of this material was protected from bases in the Norway and the Baltics.
The U Boot training fields were off the Baltics. Northern Italy was one of the few Axis granaries left in German hands. The czech munitions plants operated till the end. Guderian had plain lost it !
Cheers
Sandeep
Re: German pockets in 1945
Having followed the conversations I recall reading that Dunkirk retained an active radar facility that continued to provide readings to German air defence for quite some time. I am also aware of the Germans raiding from their Brittany ports using their collection of small naval craft. Of course, these were mere pinpricks but did show they were not content to be penned in.
To add to the list of German forces unable to support the defence of the homeland you could include those based in the Netherlands, especially after the British reached the Baltic and North Sea ports.
To add to the list of German forces unable to support the defence of the homeland you could include those based in the Netherlands, especially after the British reached the Baltic and North Sea ports.
Re: German pockets in 1945
How can a nearly destroyed German Army attack a numerically superior Red Army in that phase of the war? They were outnumbered 5 to 1, 6 to 1 in some sectors. They have limited fuel as well. Even the so called Hitler's Gamble - Battle of the Bulge solely relied on captured enemy fuel to advance...
German Army was done after Kursk. And you're talking about 19 fricking 45.
Tbh, Army Group Courland was a waste of resources. Nearly 200.000 men wasted defending a submarine training ground.
Edited: Corrected some mistakes after totally woke up.
German Army was done after Kursk. And you're talking about 19 fricking 45.
Tbh, Army Group Courland was a waste of resources. Nearly 200.000 men wasted defending a submarine training ground.
Edited: Corrected some mistakes after totally woke up.
Last edited by Erwinn on 31 May 2016, 09:39, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Member
- Posts: 1524
- Joined: 07 Aug 2014, 06:34
Re: German pockets in 1945
Erwinn wrote:How can a near destroyed German Army attack a numerically superior Red Army in that phase of the army? They were outnumbered 5 to 1, 6 to 1 in some sectors. They have limited fuel as well. Even the so called Hitler's Gamble - Battle of the Bulge solely relied on captured enemy fuel to advance...
German Army was done after Kursk. And you're talking about 19 fricking 45.
Tbh, Army Group Courland was a waste of resources. Nearly 200.000 men wasted defending a submarine training ground.
You are right .. there is no credible basis for claiming that the German army could successfully attack the Soviets at that late stage. But for saying that .. our friend here might call you names too
BTW have you reckoned how many Soviet armies of the 1st and 2nd Baltic Fronts, the Courland pocket engaged and tied down?
Ciao
Sandeep
Last edited by sandeepmukherjee196 on 31 May 2016, 13:44, edited 1 time in total.
Re: German pockets in 1945
Well that wouldn't change the outcome. Of course they tied down Soviet armies but since the Soviet advance could not be stopped on the remaining front, it was a waste of 200.000 men.
-
- Member
- Posts: 1524
- Joined: 07 Aug 2014, 06:34
Re: German pockets in 1945
Ultimately nothing mattered ...since the Germans lost the war. However they had to try their best while the Reich still existed. So its a question of what amounted to their "best"?Erwinn wrote:Well that wouldn't change the outcome. Of course they tied down Soviet armies but since the Soviet advance could not be stopped on the remaining front, it was a waste of 200.000 men.
If the armies of the 1st and 2nd Baltic fronts weren't tied down at Courland since October, they would have joined the swamping campaign at Pomerania...East Prussia and Silesia. With all those extra forces available the Oder front may have been breached in strength before the HG W could brace up.
Russian generals like Chuikov were raring to go as it is ..In March. With all those forces the Soviet official policy may have got bolder.
Question is whether the additional German divisions thus freed would have made a difference to HGW. Someone has to convince me on that.
Ciao
Sandeep
Re: German pockets in 1945
With or without those armies war ends in May 1945.
Also adding those armies to the Poland and Pomerania sector puts Soviet supply system under great pressure. They had to wait for months to continue their offensives. If supply buildup could've finished sooner, war would probably be over in Feb '45.
Also adding those armies to the Poland and Pomerania sector puts Soviet supply system under great pressure. They had to wait for months to continue their offensives. If supply buildup could've finished sooner, war would probably be over in Feb '45.