steverodgers801 wrote:What is the point of having the Soviets invading so Germany can lose territory??
Well, if such questions are being asked, it means, that I have not made my point sufficiently clear. Let us have a look at what happened in 1941 in the reality. In the reality some 3,5 million Soviet servicemen were lost in the first six month of the conflict. Those, who don't believe in the official post-Soviet data, use higher figures. In some cases the words "five million" are being pronounced.
Though these figures look very high, they are dwarfed by the general Soviet mobilization potential, that surpassed 30 million men by the outbreak of the war. The idea behind "Schlieffen plan" for the Soviet Union is to inflict heavier casualties, than were inflicted on the Soviets in the reality. How can it be achieved? By allowing the Soviets to concentrate very heavy masses of troops on the border, so that their destruction would lead to the loss of more men and equipment, than in the actual scenario.
Additionally, "Schlieffen scenario" would allow to capture the major Soviet political centers (Moscow, Leningrad), which was not achieved in the reality as well.
Finally, the plan, if carried out correctly, would break the Soviet command and control system. The railway system would be shaken to the foundation as well.
steverodgers801 wrote:The objective is to get territory.
No. In the reality the loss of territory contracted the Soviet potential, but did not break the system as the whole. The objective is to shut down the system by taking over its key points.
LWD wrote:If the forces involved are small then there is little incentive for the Red Army to attack.
Agree. That's a week point of the plan. Hence, an effort should be made, to force them into believing, that a large force is being deployed in the West. "Sea Lion" required some 30 divisions for the invasion only. Some divisions are to kept in reserve, some should guard the cost. Eventually, the invasion plan can envisage heavy casualties at sea, which would call for a much larger invasion force. So, some 60 divisions can be sent to the English channel.
LWD wrote:And again the Red army wasn't ready for an offensive vs Germany in 1940 in any case.
Depends on numbers. If the Soviets manage to marshal some 300 divisions against 80 on the German side (the rest is busy with "Sea Lion"), it will be at least worse trying. There are 3 strategic factors (other than Britain), that motivate the Soviets to invade:
1. Reduction of the frontline length. European continent grows wider in the East. A frontline running from Leningrad to Crimea would be some 50% longer, than an alternative frontline running from Konigsberg to Black sea costs. The Soviets have many slow infantry divisions and rather weak mobile units. Hence their interest in short frontlines with high concentration of forces.
2. Polish railway system (built under Russian empire) is compatible with the Soviet.
3. Invading Romania, one can cut Germany's oil supply.
So, a temptation to move some 100 miles to the West and fight a large scale battle there would be hard to resist.
LWD wrote:NO. If they can't overcome the RN then Sea Lion isn't going to go.
Royal Navy can be checked by German air force. A suicidal scenario, in which only a half of German forces reaches Britain (the other half destroyed en rout) is still an option. An option to be fed to the Soviet intelligence, of course.
LWD wrote:In any case moving a division is not something that you can do "immediately" it's going to take days at least.
In terms of the operation, that we are planning, "days" is "immediately". The plan does not calls for the Soviets to be stopped at the border. They are to march some 100 miles inland. This will take the some days.
I'll visit the thread on German railroads. My gratitude for having indicated it to me.