Anyone know where Igumnowo - Rußland is?

[JU187]

I've posted previously in search for details about my two great uncles who served in World War 2 for Germany. They were Germans who lived in the Sudetenland town of Romerstadt prior to the war. On the website Volksbud I was able to locate one of my Great Uncle's with matching birth town, birth date and first and last name. Below is the exact message that is displayed on the site. I'm trying to use his date of death of August 18th 1942 along with the location, to find out which unit he most likely served in. The problem I'm having is while I have no problem locating Olenino, Nobody seems to have any idea where or what Igumnowo Russia[/color] is located. Any help would be appreciated. See below for what is listed on the site:

Nach den uns vorliegenden Informationen befindet sich sein Grab derzeit noch an folgendem Ort: Igumnowo - Rußland

Nachname: Neumann
Vorname: Alfred
Dienstgrad: Gefreiter
Geburtsdatum: 05.05.1909
Geburtsort: Römerstadt
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 18.08.1942
Todes-/Vermisstenort: Olenino

[Richie B]

II did a quick Google for Igumnovo

Not sure if the results have any bearing on your question but I thought I would post the search results link just in case.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Igumn ... CCwQvgUoAQ

re Olenino - take your pick !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olenino

Good hunting

[AVV]

Hello!
There are too much Igumnovos in Russia:
just a list from Russian Wiki (still, I'm not so sure it is complete)
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%98%D0% ... 0%B2%D0%BE
May be, you have any idea about the region where this village is located?

Best regards, Aleks

[GregSingh]

Good news, I think !!!
I found another Igumnovo at 55.1019,35.3356 in Kaluzhskaya oblast.
It is half way between Temkino and Shanskiy Zavod.
To make things interesting, this particular Igumnovo was only about 20km from Olenino at 55.1703,34.9808 in Smolenskaya oblast - about 10km north from Temkino. Was - because Olenino seems to be abandoned today.
You can see both villages using this link- http://maps.netpatia.com/donde/donde.php?id=810777

Looks like 31.InfDiv was in the area in 1942.

[JU187]

Thank you all for your reply's!! **UPDATE

Some of your links got me doing more searches and I stumbled upon a website in German where there is a forum much like the one we are on now. A person asked a question about a letter he had that belonged to his Grandfather. His Grandfather had been a POW and survived (I understand that most did not survive under Russian capture) He wrote down his memories but passed away and this person was asking if anyone had any clues as to where these places were located in his Grandfather's notes. A person responded after reading it and this is what he said about the 4th place on his list:

"Lager 469 - Station Igumnowo, Gebiet Gorki (Nish. Now.)"

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/wbb ... daa8b0a21b


The link is below if anyone wants to read more. The post was made by a person named "Kirill" I would respond to him but this forum post was 6 years ago.

I'm now thinking this makes more sense: My great uncle must have gone missing or captured around Olenino. And there must be some record of his capture and because he never came home it was concluded he died in the Prison Camp named above, wherever this Station Igumnowo is located. Apparently it's a Rail line so that may better explain the distance. I know there was heavy fighting over control of the rails in that region. That may help explain why it says both Olenino AND Igumnowo on his Volksbund entry, because he was captured or missing in one location and presumed killed or died in the other.

Does this make sense to anyone? Am I on the right track? Also if anyone knows anything of the above mentioned POW station, I would appreciate any information. Thanks guys for helping me retell the story of my fallen Great Uncle. It's been a mystery all these years as I know it has been for so many families of those missing or killed in action along the Eastern Front.

[history1]

The "title" reads "Todes-/Vermisstenort" = Place of death/Place of missing.
Why do you think he came to this cemetary place by railway? I couldn´t find a railway on this route, but that of course doesn´t mean 70 years back there wasn´t any:
http://bit.ly/13BC07U

On the other hand it´s very difficult to be sure which villages are mentioned, as Aleks already pointed out.
8 villages with the name Olenino:
http://www.fallingrain.com/world/RS/a/O/l/e
And far more of "Igumnovo":
http://www.fallingrain.com/world/RS/a/I/g/u

[history1]

Note also that your link (to the german forum) mentions a "station" Igumnowo in the Gorky area (nowadays Nishnij Nowgorod).
I found a freight terminal with this name but couldn´t locate it exactly, but it must be the one in this city because it´s the same railway organisation: http://www.railwagonlocation.com/en/rai ... n_id=19556

I´m just curios because a view on the map shows this locations far behind Moscow, hence I doubt that those are the correct places or did the Germans fight so depp inside of the former UDSSR?
http://bit.ly/119ocSc

[Inselaffe]

Just a thought (and probably way off ); This would initially have been hand-written, could this be a misreading or miscopying of 'Irgendwo' e.g. Somewhere in Russia, place unknown?


Cheers

[AVV]

I´m just curios because a view on the map shows this locations far behind Moscow, hence I doubt that those are the correct places or did the Germans fight so depp inside of the former UDSSR?

Probably, a POW camp was located there.

Best regards, Aleks

[athirsizi]

...Does this make sense to anyone? Am I on the right track? ...

No (truly: I think that idea is totally wrong)
The Olenino near Rshev was more than 30km away from the frontline on the 18.8.42. It does not make sense that you somehow get to a prisoner camp east of Moscow from there.

"dead or missing" on the volksbund-website means that this is the last known fact, if he had died in that prison camp they would have taken this location for the place of death.

but I´m not sure if you are still reading here - if yes, then I may have another guess for the place for you I just have to look at some maps and stuff at home

until next time!

[GregSingh]

Following my earlier post, please find attached fragment of a German map of the area of Temkino.
You will find both Olenino and Igumnowo.
I would suggest to look into history of 31.ID

[Svetlana Karlin]

Following my earlier post, please find attached fragment of a German map of the area of Temkino.
You will find both Olenino and Igumnowo.
I would suggest to look into history of 31.ID

Olenino in the area of Temkino does not exist anymore. I looked at Yandex Maps (a Russian analog of Google Maps): Stepaniki, Paschino, Rapowka and Batjuschkowo are still here, while Olenino, Rogowo and Wassiljewo are gone. There are fields and forests where the latter villages used to be.

Igumnovo is still here although almost every village around it on the German map appears to be gone now, except Pronkino and Orechownja (Orekhovnya).

[athirsizi]

...I would suggest to look into history of 31.ID

good job - you did the work for me, I also have such maps maybe you can also upload a part of the "Lagekarte" of that day, I´m sure you used one to make out the 31. ID?!

anyway: things are still not 100% clear. the frontline was about 3000km long and city names repeat often. but it´s an interesting coincidence that this "Olenino" is exactely in the drawn frontline as they defended the river bank there it seems.

but without further information from the WAST from Germany I would not bet too much money on it or make an expensive travel to this place.

concerning the 31. ID:
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... n/31ID.htm
(it says that they were transferred to that region just a few days before the 18.8.1942)

but once again: there may be five other Oleninos along the frontline somewhere in Russia!

[GregSingh]

Yeah, I did it nearly a month ago, just read my earlier post.
I checked how the front line looked back in those days using Lage Ost maps.
Than I scrolled through several German maps along the front line and I can tell you these are the only Olenino and Igumnowo so close to front line in August '42. Still, I agree, it does not prove anything...

[athirsizi]

really good work! but it seems to me that it´s a long "journey" from Australia to the eastern front of WW II - I mean, I have maps & stuff because my grandfather was in Russia in the war, but you lived and could live in peace on your continent with some Foster´s forever and ever...