Were the V-weapons a bad idea?

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wm
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Re: Were the V-weapons a bad idea?

#136

Post by wm » 07 Nov 2013, 00:37

LWD wrote:
wm wrote:I think we should spin the non-Adcock antenna as fast as its possible and observe received signals on a long persistence phosphor oscilloscope. And that's how it was done.
And the fix was usually at the null point, not at the maximum because almost any antenna has a better(narrower) null that maximum.
Sources PLS.
That the null is better? Just google the term "aural-null".

Although it has to be said because it's the simplest method available it wasn't used during the WW2 for any serious tasks (like searching for U-Boots). A spinning loop antenna on a top of a truck, operators slowly turning their antennas to the null (or max.) are more Hollywood movie props than reality.
The usually used crossed-loop and Adcock antennas didn't even have any usefull nulls (or maxs).
Please observe the instantaneous finding of a direction on a FH4 "Huff-Duff" simulator as demonstrated by Jerry Jones from the USS Slater museum. The FH4 had no rotating parts whatsoever:


Unfortunately the introduction note there is not precise. The Germans had their own Huff-Duff, better and faster that the British one (the Lichtbild-Kurzwelle apparatus and the Wullenwever technology). They simply had no mission for them.
They knew perfectly well that fast radio direction finding was possible, after all the Bellini-Tosi goniometer, that didn't require moving the antenna, was invented in 1907, and perfected by Watson-Watt in 1926, (and as I said they had their own instantaneous HF/DFs).
What they didn't know that this type of apparatus could be used successfully in the hostile environment of a warship. This seemingly impossible hard problem was successfully solved, as many surely know, by the Polish engineer Wacław Struszyński at the beginning of the WW2.
LWD wrote:The point was that such transmitters were possible not that a spark gap one is the way to go. Indeed it wouldn't be for quite a few reasons. That doesn't mean that less broad band jammers couldn't be used effectively indeed it rather suggest that they could.
The mammoth 200kW Marconi's Caernarvon transatlantic station was huge even by today's standards. During the WW2 there were very few larger transmitters: the CH radar stations were comparable, the Goliath VLF transmitter for communication with submerged submarines was larger, maybe a few commercial stations. Those were huge and costly installations impossible to be built on a whim and for some limited purposes.
And as I said a transmitter has to match the antenna impedance, but the impedance of the antenna changes with frequency, so no broadband, high-power transmission is possible and will never be.
LWD wrote:And you don't think that the launch and vibrations much less temperature changes might cause some variations in the tuneing? For that matter if the transmitter is on it will be sending out a signal perhaps not a very substantial one but it will be there.
It's a fact that some of the V-1s were equipped with transmitters. And that the transmitters were used successfully, but that success was squandered by the technologically challenged Germans leadership.
This a still from a German instructional film for the V 1 launching crews:
v1a.jpg
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an antenna before deployment:
v1b.jpg
v1b.jpg (10.37 KiB) Viewed 981 times
mode of deployment, here by hand, by airstream in reality:
v1c.jpg
v1c.jpg (10.52 KiB) Viewed 981 times

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fredleander
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Re: Were the V-weapons a bad idea?

#137

Post by fredleander » 07 Nov 2013, 18:23

wm wrote:That the null is better? Just google the term "aural-null".
Thank you for some extremely instructional postings..... :thumbsup: ..

Fred
River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book about Operation Sealion:
https://www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - an eight-book series on the Pacific War:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D3 ... rw_dp_labf


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LWD
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Re: Were the V-weapons a bad idea?

#138

Post by LWD » 07 Nov 2013, 19:03

I'll second that. I'll probably have some more questions but definitly a substancive post.

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wm
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Re: Were the V-weapons a bad idea?

#139

Post by wm » 30 Dec 2013, 01:00

Thank you for your kind words.
I should add that the German Huff-Duff didn't require the sense button, but as they didn't know how to adapt their device to the steel warship environment, or rather didn't bother with allocating any funds for that project we might say it was better but the British one was deadly.
And, the ingenuity shown by the British, American, and German scientists during the WW2 in the field of electronics (given the limited capabilities of valves/tubes) is simply mind boggling, although those achievements weren't as flamboyant as rockets and planes.

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Marcus
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Re: Were the V-weapons a bad idea?

#140

Post by Marcus » 16 Feb 2014, 17:04

A post on the V-rockets and the post-war space programs were split off into a new thread at http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 6&t=205862

/Marcus

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