Overview of proposed operations from sea lion?

[harry6116]

hey all,
i don't know enough about the proposed strategies for operation sea lion.
could anyone give me a General overview of things such as landing sites, priority objectives et cetera?
it's an operation but I don't have a lot of knowledge of it. On the sketchy information I do know I tend to think that Hitler would not have conquered Britain due to the British navies overwhelming seapower compared to the Germans. I also think that even if London had been taken a severe gorilla campaign would have been conducted from Scotland or Wales. I also tend to think about the RIA and from accounts I have read some Irish welcomed a German defeat of Britain for obvious reasons.
thanks for any help

Michael

[fredleander]

hey all,
i don't know enough about the proposed strategies for operation sea lion.
could anyone give me a General overview of things such as landing sites, priority objectives et cetera?
it's an operation but I don't have a lot of knowledge of it. On the sketchy information I do know I tend to think that Hitler would not have conquered Britain due to the British navies overwhelming seapower compared to the Germans. I also think that even if London had been taken a severe gorilla campaign would have been conducted from Scotland or Wales. I also tend to think about the RIA and from accounts I have read some Irish welcomed a German defeat of Britain for obvious reasons.
thanks for any help

Michael

He-he, I'm afraid this thread shan't last long.... ...

Fred

[pugsville]

sealion plan was to use barely seaworthy river-barges, with improvised crews only about 1/3 motorized the rest towed, at extreme slow speeds across the channel escorted by a very small number of destroyers (6?) mine sweepers, e boats etc. The main German fleet (cruisers) was to make a decoy operation. Sea mines were also to be used to help form a 'safe' passage area for the invasion fleet. The overwhelming problem was this cross channel operation was incredibly vulnerable to the much much stronger Royal navy.

[Graeme Sydney]

sealion plan was to use barely seaworthy river-barges, with improvised crews only about 1/3 motorized the rest towed, at extreme slow speeds across the channel escorted by a very small number of destroyers (6?) mine sweepers, e boats etc. The main German fleet (cruisers) was to make a decoy operation. Sea mines were also to be used to help form a 'safe' passage area for the invasion fleet. The overwhelming problem was this cross channel operation was incredibly vulnerable to the much much stronger Royal navy.

And relied on good weather and complete air supremacy.

[harry6116]

thanks for your replies. You're quite right about german air superiority. Changing the bombing from airfields to civilian targets was a very stupid move, another two weeks of sustained bombardment would have killed the RAF.

thanks again for your help

Michael

[steverodgers801]

The RAF was taking damage, but there was nothing to prevent them from withdrawing out of range for a while. The Luftwaffe was also taking serious losses in their bomber force. I have serious doubts about the ability of the Luftwaffe to support a landing. They would have had to fly cap over the fleet, be ready for naval interdiction, fly air interdiction, ground interdiction, ground support, escort the bombers and any other tasks all at the same time.

[harry6116]

in my mined the german airforce was not a strategic bombing force. from what i have seen they were best at supporting ground forces with plains like the JU87 and others. another problem is with the German psyche, they were very predictable and were adversed to making changes to times and strategy to suit an operation. take cursk in 1943 as a prime example.

[pugsville]

The Battle of Britain could never have destroyed the RAF, the British would always if damaged enough withdrawn beyond German fighter range. The Luftwaffe were hampered by a number of factors, fighting over Britain, Radar, poor intelligence, lack of long range fighters, poor performance of the me110. That and the extremely short time frame to work in meant that destruction of the RAF was impossible. They could attrition it at a cost, but how much was essentially controlled by the British who would always have kept a viable reserve to face any invasion in 1940.

Various sites gave some details on the German plans.
for example
http://www.da.mod.uk/colleges/jscsc/jsc ... on-sealion

[harry6116]

thanks a lot for that reply.
i agree with all your points and that site looks very good.

[LWD]

There are a bunch of Sea Lion threads on the forum. One of the biggest is the BoB thread in the "What if" forum. All contain a lot of information and debates some quite good. There is also quite a bit of info on the web much of it linked in the above threads although some of the links may not lead anywhere now.

[harry6116]

If there is something I love it is alternate history. Is fascinating to go through what ifs. will check out that forum.

[LWD]

Most of the other threads deal with specific issues. That BoB thread is massive and wanders back and forth a bit as can be expected. There are other Sea Lion threads in the What If section as well not to mention those elsewhere.

[fredleander]

The most extensive Sea Lion thread I know of took place on the American ArmchairGeneralForum some years back. It generated 15.000 postings and lasted several years. Among its main participants it is often called TTTSNBN - The Thread That Shall Not Be Named.

It directly influenced me to write a 322-page book on the subject.

Fred

[Dann Falk]

For what it's worth, two books on the subject:

Operation Sea Lion (1957) by Peter Fleming
Operation SeaLion by (1975) by Richard Cox

[fredleander]

For what it's worth, two books on the subject:

Operation Sea Lion (1957) by Peter Fleming
Operation SeaLion by (1975) by Richard Cox

Actually there is about 20 books specifically on the subject. I have most of them. In my opinion the best is that by the German author Peter Schenk. His description of the barge fleet and the extensive modifications made is outstanding. The classic is the two-volume work by Karl Klee.

There are also some by British authors which describe the local impotency of the Royal Navy at the time - one being Peter C. Smith.

Of course, the German General Halder's diary is invaluable. He was German Army chief of staff at the time.

Fred