Why DOW on Germany and not of Russia after Poland?
Why DOW on Germany and not of Russia after Poland?
Germany and Russia both invaded Poland and split the country between them. I don't understand why Britain and France declared war on Germany and not Russia. I especially do not understand, in light of Poland, why the allies sided with and supplied Russia and fought against Germany. In hindsight, there are things we know that were not know at that time. Then again the perspective from 2014 is certainly different from the perspective of the late 1930s.
It seems like hypocrisy to me. I assume there are things I am not aware of. I have learned to read diaries and autobiographies written by history's losers to learn real history because winners always spin things into something that they weren't. I don't want to wander off topic however...
This is something that has been on my mind, why it was "too much" for Germany to invade Poland and was OK for Russia to invade Poland, to the extremes of declaring war on Germany and helping Russia with war material... I do not understand.
Then as soon as WW II was over, the west and Russia were at each other's throats. I don't understand.
I apologize if this has been asked and answered or if I posted it on the wrong forum... I am rather new here.
Thanks for the help!
Julien
It seems like hypocrisy to me. I assume there are things I am not aware of. I have learned to read diaries and autobiographies written by history's losers to learn real history because winners always spin things into something that they weren't. I don't want to wander off topic however...
This is something that has been on my mind, why it was "too much" for Germany to invade Poland and was OK for Russia to invade Poland, to the extremes of declaring war on Germany and helping Russia with war material... I do not understand.
Then as soon as WW II was over, the west and Russia were at each other's throats. I don't understand.
I apologize if this has been asked and answered or if I posted it on the wrong forum... I am rather new here.
Thanks for the help!
Julien
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Re: Why DOW on Germany and not of Russia after Poland?
peiperfan -- You remarked:
Agreement of Mutual Assistance Between the United Kingdom and Poland.-London, August 25, 1939
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/wwii/blbk19.asp
Treaty of Locarno Between France and Poland, October 16, 1925
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/wwii/ylbka1.asp
The British and French declarations of war were based on their treaty obligations. The British treaty guaranteed assistance to Poland only if that country was attacked by "a European power." The French treaty was specifically restricted to aggression by Germany.I don't understand why Britain and France declared war on Germany and not Russia.
Agreement of Mutual Assistance Between the United Kingdom and Poland.-London, August 25, 1939
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/wwii/blbk19.asp
Treaty of Locarno Between France and Poland, October 16, 1925
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/wwii/ylbka1.asp
Re: Why DOW on Germany and not of Russia after Poland?
1)Because they were not waging war for Poland. They were waging war against Germany.peiperfan wrote:Germany and Russia both invaded Poland and split the country between them. I don't understand why Britain and France declared war on Germany and not Russia.
2)Poland didn't declare war on the USSR either by the way. One can wonder why western governments should be more patriots of Poland than the Polish government.
Re: Why DOW on Germany and not of Russia after Poland?
It is called "politics".peiperfan wrote:It seems like hypocrisy to me.
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Re: Why DOW on Germany and not of Russia after Poland?
[quote]The British and French declarations of war were based on their treaty obligations.[quote]
While that is the politically correct answer, the truth is that is was in French and British interests to declare war against Germany. Let's not pretend that every treaty is respected, nor every nation makes decisions on what doesn't suit their best interests.
While that is the politically correct answer, the truth is that is was in French and British interests to declare war against Germany. Let's not pretend that every treaty is respected, nor every nation makes decisions on what doesn't suit their best interests.
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Re: Why DOW on Germany and not of Russia after Poland?
Konig_pilsner --You wrote, quoting me:
Let's not pretend that factually correct responses to peiperfan's musings conceal some "politically correct" agenda.While that is the politically correct answer, the truth is that is was in French and British interests to declare war against Germany. Let's not pretend that every treaty is respected, nor every nation makes decisions on what doesn't suit their best interests.The British and French declarations of war were based on their treaty obligations.
Re: Why DOW on Germany and not of Russia after Poland?
It was not possible for the allies to fight both Germany and Russia at the same time. The allies had already been concentrating on going after Germany so it made sense to stick to only one war. As far as the hypocrisy comment is concerned the war wasn't about Poland but about limiting German power - Poland was used to go to war against Germany. In fact when the treaty with Poland was signed everyone knew Poland was going to be Germany's next target - the treaty was to be used as the excuse for war. And not only was Russia allowed to invade Poland but the allies provided no assistance at all and broke their own treaty. The allies unprepared for war had already decided that Poland would be used as a "punching bag" by the Germans to buy time to get their own forces ready. So the short answer is - they didn't care about Poland and the war was never about them.
Re: Why DOW on Germany and not of Russia after Poland?
This is not correct .
Re: Why DOW on Germany and not of Russia after Poland?
What have I said that's wrong? The French had promised an offensive 2 weeks after the war began. So tell us when the offensive began?
Re: Why DOW on Germany and not of Russia after Poland?
The offensive started on 7 september .Thus,the French did what they had promised.
Re: Why DOW on Germany and not of Russia after Poland?
Thank you for the interesting responses... thank you all for the thoughts. I'll continue to read, both this thread, forum, and books. I am about halfway through with Twilight of the Gods right now.
The question of why the allies would help Russian Bolsheviks and fight Germany has seemed odd to me... and I appreciate the help in understanding. I think maybe I understand but don't know the facts, if that makes any sense.
I sometimes wonder if perhaps England and France are always at odds with Germany and Northmen just because they have been for centuries and it is an ingrained prejudice. I could be wrong, I am trying to learn. There certainly has been an effort to keep people, at least in the USA, ignorant... I am trying to overcome that. BTW, my youngest daughter now lives in Germany. She has lived there for several years. I have had the opportunity to visit once and plan to again. Next time I will have more on places on my agenda.
Thank you for the facts as you understand them.
JB
The question of why the allies would help Russian Bolsheviks and fight Germany has seemed odd to me... and I appreciate the help in understanding. I think maybe I understand but don't know the facts, if that makes any sense.
I sometimes wonder if perhaps England and France are always at odds with Germany and Northmen just because they have been for centuries and it is an ingrained prejudice. I could be wrong, I am trying to learn. There certainly has been an effort to keep people, at least in the USA, ignorant... I am trying to overcome that. BTW, my youngest daughter now lives in Germany. She has lived there for several years. I have had the opportunity to visit once and plan to again. Next time I will have more on places on my agenda.
Thank you for the facts as you understand them.
JB
Reply to peiperfan.
It also has to do with geography. Germany being right next door to France made it easy for Germany to invade them - and this would put them right in line to go after Britain. Also think how the allies would go after Russia had they actually declared war. There was some talk about bombing the Baku oilfields in Russia but major land operations would not have been possible as far I know. To be sure the west didn't like communism but before ww2 Russia simply wasn't seen as a threat. It was only after the war when eastern Europe became occupied that Russia really became the enemy. As a final note I would like to add that there was a secret clause in the treaty with Poland that said the allies would only protect her western border! An absurd situation to say the least. That's what was used to avoid declaring war on Russia - they still broke the treaty by not helping them with Germany. You can read the whole treaty including the secret protocols here (secret clauses are near the bottom): http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Agreement ... %281939%29
Re: Why DOW on Germany and not of Russia after Poland?
"Saar offensive" was all over by 12th September. Allies stopped it, not German resistance. Fighting in Poland was still on...The offensive started on 7 september .Thus,the French did what they had promised.
Sitzkrieg, Phoney War or strange war, drôle de guerre has begun in the West....
Re: Why DOW on Germany and not of Russia after Poland?
This is not relevant : the French promised to start an offensive : they started an offensive . They never said how long the offensive would last,and Poland never asked how long it would last ,this for obvious reasons .
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Re: Why DOW on Germany and not of Russia after Poland?
Since the Soviets waited till Poland was finished, it gave the west the excuse that there was no Poland left and why add to your list of opponents