Reasons germany lost the war

Discussions on High Command, strategy and the Armed Forces (Wehrmacht) in general.
Post Reply
Hauptmannnenkel
Banned
Posts: 48
Joined: 04 Oct 2014, 10:44

Re: Reasons germany lost the war

#31

Post by Hauptmannnenkel » 08 Oct 2014, 23:21

of course the war was lost in summer 44. it was lost after zitadelle 43, or after stalingrad or even after the loss in dec 41

but from a military point of view this version isnt absurd at all. i just said that the invasion could be repulsed in 3-5 day if tanks where located in beach area like rommel wanted. that isnt absurd at all.
that the allies would have invade a 2nd time in france later is clear and that hey would win the war also. it would just prolong the war for some month

Michael Kenny
Member
Posts: 8251
Joined: 07 May 2002, 20:40
Location: Teesside

Re: Reasons germany lost the war

#32

Post by Michael Kenny » 08 Oct 2014, 23:23

Hauptmannnenkel wrote:
funny what you are mentionning: germany alone against the whole world on multiple fronts
Alone?
Italy?
Finland?
Hungary?
Rumania?
Bulgaria?
Austria should also get a seperate listing

Did not Japan divert any Allied resources?

I will not mention Thailand and Iraq.


Hauptmannnenkel
Banned
Posts: 48
Joined: 04 Oct 2014, 10:44

Re: Reasons germany lost the war

#33

Post by Hauptmannnenkel » 08 Oct 2014, 23:26

rumania, bulgaria, italy, i start laughin later :lol: :lol: :lol:

omg that you even enumerate these countrys.... no comment, just no comment.


your just started saying that the power was equal axis vs allies? manpower, material, tanks, oil, artellary, planes and moral?
italy romania, bulgaria etc didnt have moral at all.
showing like some of these countrys retract their armys from the eastern fron by mid 43. and later declared war against germany....


btw not just talking about moral of italy etc, just saying show me the tanks, artellary and planes a hungarian, bulgarian or romanian or italian division had. hahahahhahahahahah =D. sooooooooo funny.
omg
Last edited by Hauptmannnenkel on 08 Oct 2014, 23:32, edited 2 times in total.

Michael Kenny
Member
Posts: 8251
Joined: 07 May 2002, 20:40
Location: Teesside

Re: Reasons germany lost the war

#34

Post by Michael Kenny » 08 Oct 2014, 23:28

Hauptmannnenkel wrote:
i just said that the invasion could be repulsed in 3-5 day if tanks where located in beach area like rommel wanted. that isnt absurd at all.
Your argument is juvenile.

'If Germany won she would not have lost'

The Allies were well prepared for a tank assault on the beaches and landed 1000 tanks on June 6th. Rommel could match that reinforcement rate.

Graeme Sydney
Member
Posts: 877
Joined: 17 Jul 2005, 16:19
Location: Australia

Re: Reasons germany lost the war

#35

Post by Graeme Sydney » 09 Oct 2014, 01:22

Hauptmannnenkel wrote:if von schweppenburg, von rundstedt and hitler would have listen to tommel and located the panzer troups directly near the beach-area, even in 1944 the invasion would have been repulsed in the first 3-5 days, at least this version isnt absurd.
Just where on the 80klms of invasion coast would you suggest Rommel places his amour to repulse the invasion? (And the 80klms is a concession that Rommels guess absolutely right and doesn't spread them out over 200+klms of potential invasion coast.)

If you spread them out they get defeated in detail, if you concentrate them they can't move or maneurve because of air supremacy and they are in range of very heavy naval bombardment.

Graeme Sydney
Member
Posts: 877
Joined: 17 Jul 2005, 16:19
Location: Australia

Re: Reasons germany lost the war

#36

Post by Graeme Sydney » 09 Oct 2014, 01:39

Hauptmannnenkel wrote:rumania, bulgaria, italy, i start laughin later :lol: :lol: :lol:

omg that you even enumerate these countrys.... no comment, just no comment.


your just started saying that the power was equal axis vs allies? manpower, material, tanks, oil, artellary, planes and moral?
italy romania, bulgaria etc didnt have moral at all.
showing like some of these countrys retract their armys from the eastern fron by mid 43. and later declared war against germany....


btw not just talking about moral of italy etc, just saying show me the tanks, artellary and planes a hungarian, bulgarian or romanian or italian division had. hahahahhahahahahah =D. sooooooooo funny.
omg
You have excellent 20-20 hindsight but the truth of the matter is that these were Germany Allies and that Germany wasn't "alone".

You also show classic Germany arrogance of depreciating the contribution of your allies. They may have been smaller, less developed and less industrialized than Germany but they still contributed significantly both militarily and economically. Just as one example Germany would not have got pass First Base without Romanian oil.

Beside which Germany choose its allies and choose to wage war with the resources it had available to it.

steinmetz
Banned
Posts: 183
Joined: 18 Sep 2014, 06:16

Re: Reasons germany lost the war

#37

Post by steinmetz » 09 Oct 2014, 04:43

Graeme Sydney wrote:
Hauptmannnenkel wrote:rumania, bulgaria, italy, i start laughin later :lol: :lol: :lol:

omg that you even enumerate these countrys.... no comment, just no comment.


your just started saying that the power was equal axis vs allies? manpower, material, tanks, oil, artellary, planes and moral?
italy romania, bulgaria etc didnt have moral at all.
showing like some of these countrys retract their armys from the eastern fron by mid 43. and later declared war against germany....


btw not just talking about moral of italy etc, just saying show me the tanks, artellary and planes a hungarian, bulgarian or romanian or italian division had. hahahahhahahahahah =D. sooooooooo funny.
omg
You have excellent 20-20 hindsight but the truth of the matter is that these were Germany Allies and that Germany wasn't "alone".

You also show classic Germany arrogance of depreciating the contribution of your allies. They may have been smaller, less developed and less industrialized than Germany but they still contributed significantly both militarily and economically. Just as one example Germany would not have got pass First Base without Romanian oil.

Beside which Germany choose its allies and choose to wage war with the resources it had available to it.

The allies of German certainly did not contribute significantly militarily as their armies were not of high quality. And German could not really freely choose its allies.

Graeme Sydney
Member
Posts: 877
Joined: 17 Jul 2005, 16:19
Location: Australia

Re: Reasons germany lost the war

#38

Post by Graeme Sydney » 09 Oct 2014, 04:56

steinmetz wrote:
The allies of German certainly did not contribute significant militarily as their armies were not of high quality. And German could not really choose its allies.
How many served, how many died? I think you are argumentative. Proportionally they gave as much or more than you could expect of them. Their military and economic strength and weaknesses, and their performance and value was predictable.

"And German could not really choose its allies.
" Why not? Germany most certainly could with a large degree of independence and initiative choose its enemies and if and when it went to war or if it choose diplomatic efforts to solve problems or gain advantage.

JustinYT
Member
Posts: 49
Joined: 04 Oct 2014, 20:02

Re: Reasons germany lost the war

#39

Post by JustinYT » 14 Oct 2014, 02:12

To me one of the biggest reasons Germany lost the war was when Hitler declared war on America, many historians have regarded it as one of his biggest and dumbest decisions. President Roosevelt could never openly declare war on Germany, since during the time after WW1 the idea was fortress America, an isolationism. Yes while many in the US felt a German victory in Europe would be a bad thing they were not willing to fight another European war or to enter it willingly. Roosevelt did what he could for England by even breaking neutrality laws by sending what weapons and ammunition he could mixed with the regular supplies that the British received like food and other materials. Hitler declaring war on the US was a big break for Roosevelt who didnt have to try and persuade America to fight the Nazi's anymore since Hitler made the decision for America. Britain by 41 was in trouble since they had been kicked out of France i.e. Dunkirk an it was unlikely Britain would be able to launch an invasion of main land Europe on its own plus the U-boat offensive against Britain was taking a toll. Germany's goal to starve the British to either a surrender which was highly unlikely or a forced truce between the two was a possibility. America's entry into the European theater shifted the balance to the Western Allies, since America could now supply the British fully with what they needed in war materials, it also was now able to send supplies to Russia. Also Hitler declaring war on the US meant there would be at some point an invasion of Western Europe, so the Germans had to send troops there to prepare an repel an invasion which definitely put a dent in the man power available to fight the Russians. It must of been frustrating for German generals to have to send much needed troops to Western Europe to essentially sit on the butts and wait. I'm not sure if Germany could of fully defeated Russia but the possibility of some kind of truce is possible since it had happened in WW1

User avatar
bronk7
Member
Posts: 396
Joined: 01 May 2013, 03:11

Re: Reasons germany lost the war

#40

Post by bronk7 » 16 Oct 2014, 13:29

I see no way Germany could've defeated Russia, even without US help..too big, too populated...and there would be no 'peace' with all the countries they invaded!!..they lost it the moment they started it....

JustinYT
Member
Posts: 49
Joined: 04 Oct 2014, 20:02

Re: Reasons germany lost the war

#41

Post by JustinYT » 16 Oct 2014, 18:34

I dont know, I think its possible if Germany would of been able to commit its full military weight to the Eastern front that they could of won, or forced some kind of truce or treaty as they did in WW1. After all it was Stalin who all but begged the Western Allies to open up a second front meaning main land Europe, to the point where he all but accused the West of taking its time so that the Red Army could take more of the brunt an further weaken the German forces before they (the west) would invade Europe. I doubt the British and Canadians would of even invaded Italy if the US had not entered the fight. With the involvement of the US entering Germany was forced to send much needed men and supplies tanks etc to the West to prepare for invasion and then had to send even more after the invasion. If Germany only had to focus on Russia then yes theres a chance they could of won

User avatar
bronk7
Member
Posts: 396
Joined: 01 May 2013, 03:11

Re: Reasons germany lost the war

#42

Post by bronk7 » 16 Oct 2014, 19:10

David1819 wrote:Germany could not win WW2 in a conventional sense, Germany would be defeated via attrition no matter what tactics and strategy they used. The only way they could have won the conflict is by using psychological warfare early on or by developing superior weapons such as nuclear weapons later on
totally agree here....they could not hold on to everything they ''captured''.....Germany's economy could not sustain itself-read The Taste of War, for one--England was not giving up, neither were the resistance groups in the different countries--...the Germans COULD NOT occupy these countries forever!![ just like Afganistan/Iraq/etc ]

User avatar
bronk7
Member
Posts: 396
Joined: 01 May 2013, 03:11

Re: Reasons germany lost the war

#43

Post by bronk7 » 16 Oct 2014, 19:21

JustinYT wrote:I dont know, I think its possible if Germany would of been able to commit its full military weight to the Eastern front that they could of won, or forced some kind of truce or treaty as they did in WW1. After all it was Stalin who all but begged the Western Allies to open up a second front meaning main land Europe, to the point where he all but accused the West of taking its time so that the Red Army could take more of the brunt an further weaken the German forces before they (the west) would invade Europe. I doubt the British and Canadians would of even invaded Italy if the US had not entered the fight. With the involvement of the US entering Germany was forced to send much needed men and supplies tanks etc to the West to prepare for invasion and then had to send even more after the invasion. If Germany only had to focus on Russia then yes theres a chance they could of won
Japan was bombed to hell!!! blockaded!!starving/etc.. Germany was surrounded/outnumbered/etc, and both these countries did NOT surrender till troops were in Berlin, and the A bombs used [even then, some Japanese did not want to give in ] do you think Russia would've surrendered?? when? logistics!! think of that...the farther away from supplies, the army gets in trouble...the Russians knew how to fight/live/etc better in Russian weather/etc....finally, could Germany's economy/etc. sustain itself LONG enough, to defeat Russia?? no way..thanks for any replies

Alixanther
Member
Posts: 411
Joined: 04 Oct 2003, 05:26
Location: Romania

Re: Reasons germany lost the war

#44

Post by Alixanther » 03 Nov 2014, 23:29

mescal wrote:
steverodgers801 wrote:The US senate and house were determined to keep the US out of any European war and only a direct action would have caused a DOW
I would tend to call this a direct action :
USS_Kearny.jpg
NOT when "your destroyers" escort Britain convoys and defend them from German submarines. That's how you got your picture. Roosevelt obviously dodged Congress and played his card against Germany without impunity. You fail to mention that :

"SC 48 was an east-bound convoy of 52 ships, carrying war materials and sailed from Sydney, Cape Breton on 5 October 1941 bound for Liverpool. It was under the command of Commodore HM Sanders in the MV Castalia.

It was escorted by a Canadian escort group consisting of the destroyer HMCS Columbia (Lt Cdr SW Davis as Senior Officer Escort), and seven corvettes; HMCS Wetaskiwin, HMCS Rosthern, HMCS Baddeck, HMCS Camrose, HMCS Shediac, HMS Gladiolus and the Free French Mimosa." (quoting wikipedia)


Not even Wikipedia has the nerve to call "your destroyer" an American one. At that time it was firmly and irrevocably a British destroyer.

User avatar
doogal
Member
Posts: 657
Joined: 06 Aug 2007, 12:37
Location: scotland

Re: Reasons germany lost the war

#45

Post by doogal » 04 Nov 2014, 16:51

Nazi Germany never adopted a far ranging strategic plan to succeed from 1939 onwards which co-ordinated every service both civilian and military and subordinated them to this aim, rather they adlibbed a confused set of operations and organisations which made up the German military effort, social and racial policy, etc etc.
And the contents of that plan would have been diametrically opposed to Hitlers own views on co-operation social policy, racial policy, economic policy, and the ability to coin a modern phrase of "winning the hearts and minds" of east and west Europe, so that he could cast Stalin as a real threat to Western Europe.
Germany was fighting on to many fronts and not just physical ones.

Post Reply

Return to “German Strategy & General German Military Discussion”