Most Promising German Wunderwaffe

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randwick
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Re: Most Promising German Wunderwaffe

#16

Post by randwick » 29 Apr 2015, 11:15

.
Germany had a wunderwaffe , it was cheap , so simple simple a thirteen year old could use it and changed the battlefield
it was called the Panzerfaust and could negate the advantage Armor had over infantry for a trifling cost ,
.... good grief black powder as a propellent and a sheet of copper as a plasma generator !!
the other was a legendary concept which revolutionized ground warfare , the assault gun

Hitler was obsessed with big , Bigger , HUGE !!..... the solution was cheap , cheaper ,cheapest

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BDV
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Re: Most Promising German Wunderwaffe

#17

Post by BDV » 30 Apr 2015, 04:01

randwick wrote:.
Germany had a wunderwaffe , it was cheap , so simple simple a thirteen year old could use it and changed the battlefield
it was called the Panzerfaust and could negate the advantage Armor had over infantry for a trifling cost ,
.... good grief black powder as a propellent and a sheet of copper as a plasma generator !!
the other was a legendary concept which revolutionized ground warfare , the assault gun

Hitler was obsessed with big , Bigger , HUGE !!..... the solution was cheap , cheaper ,cheapest
It was used. One would get 2 weeks of leave for knocking out an enemy tank with one.

But that is why artillery is the great unsung Wally weapon...
Nobody expects the Fallschirm! Our chief weapon is surprise; surprise and fear; fear and surprise. Our 2 weapons are fear and surprise; and ruthless efficiency. Our *3* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency; and almost fanatical devotion


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stg 44
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Re: Most Promising German Wunderwaffe

#18

Post by stg 44 » 01 May 2015, 13:00

randwick wrote:.
Germany had a wunderwaffe , it was cheap , so simple simple a thirteen year old could use it and changed the battlefield
it was called the Panzerfaust and could negate the advantage Armor had over infantry for a trifling cost ,
.... good grief black powder as a propellent and a sheet of copper as a plasma generator !!
the other was a legendary concept which revolutionized ground warfare , the assault gun

Hitler was obsessed with big , Bigger , HUGE !!..... the solution was cheap , cheaper ,cheapest
Someone on this forum IIRC mentioned the Panzerfaust was not especially accurate and was a marginal improvement over the bundle of grenades option. They only really appeared in 1944 in significant numbers, started development in 1942, and were still in the process of development in a crash program.

ML59
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Re: Most Promising German Wunderwaffe

#19

Post by ML59 » 01 May 2015, 17:46

Panzerfaust variants used during the war were very rustic and scaring weapons that required almost suicidal attitude to be exploited correctly. Nevertheless, they gave to the German infantry a boost in anti-tank firepower that was very useful in urban combats, where artillery was not so effective or not available at all. Losses to panzerfaust were very limited among allies tanks until they reached the major built-up areas of central Europe, especially inside Germany. Then that weapon could really play its deadly role at best, not in open fields where, on the majority of cases, the Faustnikis could not even get close enough to they targets.

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pintere
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Re: Most Promising German Wunderwaffe

#20

Post by pintere » 01 May 2015, 18:08

ML59 wrote:Panzerfaust variants used during the war were very rustic and scaring weapons that required almost suicidal attitude to be exploited correctly. Nevertheless, they gave to the German infantry a boost in anti-tank firepower that was very useful in urban combats, where artillery was not so effective or not available at all. Losses to panzerfaust were very limited among allies tanks until they reached the major built-up areas of central Europe, especially inside Germany. Then that weapon could really play its deadly role at best, not in open fields where, on the majority of cases, the Faustnikis could not even get close enough to they targets.
Even in Normandy, over half of allied tank losses were due to AT guns (both conventional and self-propelled). Panzerfausts played a relatively minor role.

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Re: Most Promising German Wunderwaffe

#21

Post by ML59 » 04 May 2015, 21:58

Correct. Nevertheless, when the Soviet Army entered into Germany in 1945, losses due to "Faust" increased dramatically, reaching a proportion, in some cases, of 70% of the total. Even heavy tanks were vulnerable to the "Faust" in urban environment and many IS 2 were lost with their crews when proper tactics of intertarms co-operation were neglected and tanks were not supported closely by mounted infantry (the so-called tank desantniki).

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Re: Most Promising German Wunderwaffe

#22

Post by ChristopherPerrien » 05 May 2015, 04:06

243 more U boats at the start of the war , would have blockaded the English Empire into a truce/victory for Germany. That is what Donitz wanted, they started with 57.

As to real, "wunderwaffe", the German advantage in "Nerve Gas" weapons, would probably have enabled them to defeat the USSR in 42-43, which would have also "won" them the war. At least until Nuclear weapons were developed, and I really don't know how the British Isles/NWO would have looked at nuking Germany in 45, faced with nerve gas reprisals/retaliation. Plus effective gas munitions benefit a defender much more than an attacker, so ""Fortress Europe" would have been a permanent thing, if the Germans had been willing to use mustard gas much less nerve gas. Omar Bradley said the use of mustard gas would have been decisive to a German Victory on D-Day on Omaha Beach.

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Re: Most Promising German Wunderwaffe

#23

Post by ML59 » 05 May 2015, 07:42

Gas did never prove to be a decisive weapon, not in WW1 and neither in the other conflicts where it was used, for example the Iran-Irak war. Use of it is as much an hindrance to enemy troops as to own troops, and results of its use have been very mixed and questionable, at best. Moreover, you forget that any action provokes a reaction: the Allies too had plenty of gas-filled ammunition available in theatre, just in case Germans should decide to use it. So, no big deal.

Concerning the submarines, middle forties technology had far too much limitations to allow a real strategic impact of those boats on the overall war and, in any case, the situation is as above: action brings reaction. Greater success of the Germans could only have quickened the development of counter tactics and measures by the Allies, what actually happened in 1942-43 when the U-boot fleet was wiped out of the oceans with horrendous losses.

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Re: Most Promising German Wunderwaffe

#24

Post by BDV » 05 May 2015, 17:05

UBoats:
There was also a British reaction, which altered the timing/tempo of the German actions.

Gas:
While gas as defensive weapon makes sense, in WWI it was much used as an offensive weapon. So I am not sure Adolf wants to engage the American petrochemical industry in a pissing contest. What was used historically and the war itself were horrendous enough.
Nobody expects the Fallschirm! Our chief weapon is surprise; surprise and fear; fear and surprise. Our 2 weapons are fear and surprise; and ruthless efficiency. Our *3* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency; and almost fanatical devotion

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Re: Most Promising German Wunderwaffe

#25

Post by Alixanther » 05 May 2015, 19:03

Diplomacy?

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BDV
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Re: Most Promising German Wunderwaffe

#26

Post by BDV » 05 May 2015, 19:25

"Ribbentrop belongs to that category of Germans who are a disaster for their country."

... not so wunder
Nobody expects the Fallschirm! Our chief weapon is surprise; surprise and fear; fear and surprise. Our 2 weapons are fear and surprise; and ruthless efficiency. Our *3* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency; and almost fanatical devotion

ML59
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Re: Most Promising German Wunderwaffe

#27

Post by ML59 » 05 May 2015, 20:36

BDV wrote:
Gas:
While gas as defensive weapon makes sense, in WWI it was much used as an offensive weapon. So I am not sure Adolf wants to engage the American petrochemical industry in a pissing contest. What was used historically and the war itself were horrendous enough.
Very questionable. It makes sense only when the receiving party is ill equipped for it, either in attack or in defense, like the bare-footed and almost naked Abyssinian warriors in the Ethiopian war of 1935-1936. But to inundate of poison gas an armored division at full speed would have been quite worthless and, given the total air supremacy of the Allies, it most probably would have caused a retaliation with hundred of planes carpet bombing the German positions (and, maybe, cities) with mustard gas bombs. There were several thousand tons of them available in UK, Italy and France, just in case. A regime that didn't stop in front of the plain murder of several millions of innocent people, including infants, children, women, disabled and mentally ill, certainly was not not afraid of using gases if there was a prospect of gaining a military advantage. But this was not the case, pros were more than compensated by cons.

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Re: Most Promising German Wunderwaffe

#28

Post by Alixanther » 06 May 2015, 11:33

BDV wrote:"Ribbentrop belongs to that category of Germans who are a disaster for their country."

... not so wunder
Well, the thread said "most promising" and I still believe there was room for improvement on the diplomatic channels, so...

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SpicyJuan
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Re: Most Promising German Wunderwaffe

#29

Post by SpicyJuan » 20 Jun 2015, 04:35

Working SAM's.

ML59
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Re: Most Promising German Wunderwaffe

#30

Post by ML59 » 20 Jun 2015, 23:24

Alixanther wrote:
Well, the thread said "most promising" and I still believe there was room for improvement on the diplomatic channels, so...
Strictly speaking, diplomacy is not a weapon so it's out of the topic of this thread. In any case, German diplomacy could never be a real effective tool given the immense cutlural and ideological limitations of the nazi way of thinking. Nazi attitude was, in its essence, ever uncompromising.

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