Did Göring Lose the War for Hitler?

[PassandReviewofWW2]

Hitler never removed Göring after each botched job, from Dunkirk, Battle of Britain, to Stalingrad

[stg 44]

Hitler never removed Göring after each botched job, from Dunkirk, Battle of Britain, to Stalingrad

He was certainly a main contributing factor...but Hitler consistently refused to remove him for his failures until the very end, so Hitler really had no one to blame but himself for putting incompetent cronies in power and keeping them there.

[Stiltzkin]

Hitler never removed Göring after each botched job, from Dunkirk, Battle of Britain, to Stalingrad

http://www.historyextra.com/article/mil ... tain-myths

Would it have changed the outcome of the war or have a grave impact on performance? Doubtful.
Göring accumulated politcal power, his military contributions were irrelevant, except BoB.

[pugsville]

Hitler never removed Göring after each botched job, from Dunkirk, Battle of Britain, to Stalingrad

http://www.historyextra.com/article/mil ... tain-myths

Would it have changed the outcome of the war or have a grave impact on performance? Doubtful.
Göring accumulated politcal power, his military contributions were irrelevant, except BoB.

That link is one of the most rubbish pieces of history writing i've ever seen.
6 myths it claims

Myth 1: the Luftwaffe commander Göring was incompetent :WRONG goring was incompetent maybe not totally but he was extremely poor.

Myth 2: Hermann Göring ruined the German possibilities to win the battle by turning the attention against London : 50/50 He Was in command and priorities did change. He may have argued against but he bears command responsibility for operational decisions.

Myth 3: Bomber command played a minor role in the Battle of Britain : WRONG bomber commands bombing did not materially affect the outcome, and the articles claims that it bored british civilians and dented german civilian morale is just irrelevant as the brittle of britian was not decided by either of those factors/

Myth 4: the twin-engined Messerschmitt Bf 110 was worthless as a fighter. WRONG the bf110 was useless as a daytime fighter.

Myth 5: Göring despised the German fighters maybe RIGHT but irrelevant.

Myth 6: the German Bf 109 pilots were absolutely superior to the RAF’s fighter pilots 50/50 german fighters were better trained going in and had superior tactical doctrine.

[Stiltzkin]

Judging by your responses, you did not even read the article as all the points you mention are listed in the text.
Bergström focuses on WW2 Airwar, if you say so.
He did not despise them on the contrary. Read the article before answering.
The headline "myths" are just claims...

[Sheldrake]

Christer Bergstrom's article focuses on the Battle of Britain. Even in the Battle of Britain German failure cannot be solely laid at Göring's door. Hitler took many of the key decisions.

Göring repeatedly made promises that were beyond the capabilities of the air force. But it was Hitler who repeatedly chose to take decisions for the armed forces on the basis of Göring's poor track record.

Göring was part of Hitler's government that decided to risk war in 1936-39, gamble on a short term war but instead invaded the Soviet Union and declared war on the USA. However, Hitler was the Führer. He picked his subordinates and allowed them to compete in the political zoo of Nazi Germany. Göring was as much a politician as the leader of the air force.

Göring picked some winners. Milch was an able administrator. Kesselring and von Richthofen emerged as competent commanders. Göring has been criticized for picking the leaders from his old flying service cronies, but who else could he rely on in 1933? Göring picked some duffers. Udet was a disaster as head of technical development.

[BDV]

First and foremost,
Hitler lost the war for Hitler.

But! GRÖFAZ lost the confrontation politically; not militarily. As such the major "Asisstant" to losing the war is von Ribbentrop, not H 'Meier' Göring.

The military being tasked to chase and fix every single political boondoggle was not feasible long term.

PS. Dunkirk was no boondoggle - BoB was due to lack of political means for pressure on Great Britain, and by Stalingrad, Luftwaffe had been saving ground pounders' hides for 18 months.

[MarkF617]

Neither Hitler or Goring were responsible for Germany's defeat in the Battle of Britain. The RAF was responsible.

Mark

[reichmusik]

-Dunkirk was primarily Hitlers fault, as he commanded a stop as he wanted peace with Britain and not to fight a racial equal race.
-The change in tactics from bombing airfields targeting the RAF to bombing London was the deciding factor that lost the battle of Britain for the Germans. The RAF was on it's knees up to that point, the bombing of London, while took civilians lives, took the pressure off the RAF for them to regroup
-Stalingrad was again Hitler's fault. There was no need to wipe the city off the map as he wanted. As such more than necessary resources and the confinement to street fighting for the more superior open field German forces crippled them. I suppose the bombers reducing everything to rubble helped the Soviet defenders, but again the command to level the city came from Hitler
The tactic of Blitzkrieg that helped the Germans in decisive victories in the beginning, were never really attained in those examples above.

While certainly true Mark, the RAF was responsible for saving Britain, I'd point responsibility to the British Secret Intelligence Service for breaking the enigma and for the deceptive communique directed to the Germans for successful raids for the overall defeat of German on the West. Russia, obviously for the East.

[MarkF617]

Just a few points:

1- The stop order before Dunkirk did not originate with Hitler, von Rundstedt requested a stop to allow maintenance and the Infantry to catch up. There was no letting the British escape. The Royal Navy didn't think they could rescue as many men as they did iirc their estimate was 40,000 max. With this in mind you can see why the Germans thought they had time on to stop.

2- At no point during the Battle of Britain was the RAF on it's knees. At the time when the Luftwaffe changed to bombing London Fighter command had more fighters than when the battle started (and I believe 1 more pilot but can't remember where I saw that) whereas the Luftwaffe was under strength. Once again the order to change tactics did not originate with Hitler. This time it was Kesselring who made the request as Hitler had forbidden the bombing of London. The logic behind the request was that German intelligence reported Fighter Command on it's last legs so attacking London would force the RAF to concentrate on the Large raids and be finished of by the German fighters. This simply didn't work due to the large number of British Fighters.

3- Attacking Stalingrad made no difference as the war was already lost I n 1941. Germany had to win fast as it could never win a long war. Once the Germans failed to wipe out the Red Army it was just a matter of time. Add to that the Americans joining in there really was no hope.

4- Blitzkrieg was never going to work in the great expanses of The Soviet Union, especially with Germany's poor logistics.

Generally this was a war that could never be won so I suppose Hitler is responsible for the defeat because he started it! However no military decisions by Hitler or Göring were responsible for the allies inevitable victory.

Mark.

[redcoat]

To add to MarkF617's post

Just a few points:

1- The stop order before Dunkirk did not originate with Hitler, Von Rundstedt requested a stop to allow maintenance and the Infantry to catch up. There was no letting the British escape.

Indeed, and it should be noted that the halt order ended on the day the British started the evacuation.

2- At no point during the Battle of Britain was the RAF on it's knees. At the time when the Luftwaffe changed to bombing London Fighter command had more fighters than when the battle started (and I believe 1 more pilot but can't remember where I saw that) whereas the Luftwaffe was under strength.

On the 7th September Fighter Command had 150 more operational fighter pilots than at the start of the battle.

[GoeringsPetLion]

Göring's big military failure was that he promised Hitler that his Luftwaffe would be able to transport 500 tons of supplies per day into Stalingrad.

[BDV]

Göring's big military failure was that he promised Hitler that his Luftwaffe would be able to transport 500 tons of supplies per day into Stalingrad.

Not that crazy a promise, as such. But planning and execution left tremendously to be desired.

P.S.

The 8350 tons achieved during the 72 days of Stalingrad airlift were achieved by the Berlin airlift in 1.8 days ON AVERAGE.

8350 tons of airlift was achieved by the Berlin airlift in 2/3 of a day on April 15-16, 1949.

[redcoat]

Göring's big military failure was that he promised Hitler that his Luftwaffe would be able to transport 500 tons of supplies per day into Stalingrad.

It wasn't Göring who first promised that the Luftwaffe could supply the forces at Stalingrad, but his Chief of Staff Generaloberst Hans Jeschonnek. By the time Göring spoke to him, Hitler had already made up his mind about the airlift and Göring couldn't back down without losing face.

http://greyfalcon.us/The%20Battle%20Of%20Stalingrad.htm

[GoeringsPetLion]

It wasn't Göring who first promised that the Luftwaffe could supply the forces at Stalingrad...

Thank you for this rare fact.