1945 Lost German girl

[ignacioosacar]

I agree with you FF7_12

[Araceli]

I would like upload photos edited by me, but I dont know how upload here,is my first time in this page, if someone could tell me where I have the option "upload photos"or "images ", I would be grateful.

[Annelie]

In the reply there is an option for attachments....
its pretty straight forward from there.

[brick2]

could you be so kind as to give us the name of your great uncle and his phone number, so I can contact him myself
That would take all doubts away

That is probably not reasonable to expect. We all seem to be using aliases of some kind on this forum...why should Münchausen "out" an elderly relative ?

You're right that we have had our fair share of "phonies" or just wishful thinkers. For example, the forum was gripped by the "LGG grandson" a while back, and compared with that, Münchhausen uncle's story includes some details which deserve some consideration and can be "probed".

LGGs grandson posts were neither proved or disproved , he simply stopped posting after a barrage of doubting Thomas posts.
It would be a shame to see that happen again.

[ignacioosacar]

I share what brick2 says . The Devil´s Advocate role may be firm but still polite.

[ignacioosacar]

Wellcome Araceli,

Your google translator works much better than mine ( or any other ) . I wonder if there is a premium version which I have missed.

[Araceli]

Thank you very much Ignacio Osacar, and Annelie. My translator does not work very well, I have to check every word to be understood and not be embarrassed by a poor translation. I must say that in this forum I learned about World War 2 much more than at school . Honestly sometimes I get confused because I can not remember names and dates and are difficult languages. Many personal stories about that time have moved me and I was interested to investigate, from either side no matter what flag they carry in their hands, they all were human beings. Will be true the version of Munchausen? seems to fit what he says but we need proof. I would like to provide detail and evidence as many did here , but I have no way to access accurate source, just watch the videos over and over again, look and investigate photos, images, i visit several pages on the internet, i read web pages and tie up loose ends, deduct situations and wait for someone one day publish here the good news that somebody know who is lgg, with photos and true sources, names and dates.

[Danno]

Hello all,

Just found this forum and am intrigued like you all as to the identification of the LGG.

I have read through all of the posts which are an excellent read.

Can someone confirm that the location of the video footage has been confirmed?

Thanks

[ChristopherPerrien]

I would like upload photos edited by me, but I dont know how upload here,is my first time in this page, if someone could tell me where I have the option "upload photos"or "images ", I would be grateful.

On the "Post a reply" section below, "Save Draft , Preview , Submit". There is an "attachments" tab under the options tab.


Select "attachments" , and look for "Add files", add file or image from there.

Use "Preview" to check your added files.

There is also "test section" where you can practice adding attachments and such. At the bottom of the Forum page.

[Münchausen]

But dear Münchausen,

could you be so kind as to give us the name of your great uncle and his phonenumber, so I can contact him myself
That would take all doubts away



regards

I am a little surprised with this demand. Do I have to ask a 89-year-old man, who has great difficulties of hearing and who cannot evoke this period of his life without experiencing deep feelings, to answer to the telephone to an unknown person?

Maybe You don't know how much the life of the Alsatians conscripted in Waffen-SS has been difficult for them when they returned in Elsass, considered as traitors at the same time by French and German while 40 000 of them didn't came back home at the end of the war? The fact is that hundreds of thousand of young men enlisted by strength and torn away from their youth are only victims, just like their families threatened with being deported in concentration camps if these young people deserted - in application of Sippenhaftung.

Widows had to wait for 1981 to receive pensions when French government finally recognized that 90% of their husbands had been victims.

So I shall never reveal the name of me relative.

We must trust ourselves.

The choice of my avatar does not constitute an irony or an allusion: it only means that the character of the film Münchausen pleased me. I would have been able as well to choose "Metternich", "Thanksgiving'" or even "King-Kong"!

Let us not ignore the obvious, folks!

Regards,

Art.

[Araceli]

ChristopherPerrien thank you very much for your help

[billdi]

Dear Mûnchausen,

Thanks for your answer
It somehow restored confidence

You see, I was so disappointed by the stories of the "grandson" and a certain "Lara Bauer" from Kollerbach
Your avatar indeed was confusing too.

So, sorry mate, and keep up the good work

best wishes

[FF7_12]

he remembers as well as the commander of the Kampfgruppe, who was accompanied with his wife and children committed suicide and killed all his family in order to not surrender to the Russians.

Hi Münchausen,

Does your relative mean Franz Knebel ?

In Weidinger's account of the episode in "Comrades to the End" he says that Knebel, who set up and led the Kampfgruppe Wallenstein, and 40,000 troops who had fought in Prague or around Prague, were sent back by the Americans because they did not make it over the River Vlatava by the deadline of 12.00 midday on 9th May.

They were held by the Americans near Pisek until 11th May and then handed over to the Russians. To avoid that fate, Knebel committed suicide.

I assume that the SS "Böhmen group" accompanying LGG on 8th May had been fighting the Vlassov troops (ROA) and that is what you mean by the "Russians". Obviously LGG and the group of Waffen SS (in civvies) made it to the American lines, presumably because they had deserted from the main Wallenstein battle group. It was 8th May and the war was still on technically. Weidinger's surrender became effective only in the afternoon of 8th May. It is possible that the Americans sent back any members of Böhmen/Wallenstein who had made it to Rokycany, since the main block of the group has gone into Russian captivity.

As for LGG, if she was an SS Prague flak girl she would have been wearing Luftwaffe pants anyway.

I think the important point from your relative's story is that it appears that LGG had fled from Prague or at least the vicinity of Prague. Correct ?

[Münchausen]

Dear Mûnchausen,

Thanks for your answer
It somehow restored confidence

You see, I was so disappointed by the stories of the "grandson" and a certain "Lara Bauer" from Kollerbach
Your avatar indeed was confusing too.

So, sorry mate, and keep up the good work

best wishes

Once bitten, twice shy. I know that... There's no harm!

Best Regards.

[fhafha]

he remembers as well as the commander of the Kampfgruppe, who was accompanied with his wife and children committed suicide and killed all his family in order to not surrender to the Russians.

Hi Münchausen,

Does your relative mean Franz Knebel ?

In Weidinger's account of the episode in "Comrades to the End" he says that Knebel, who set up and led the Kampfgruppe Wallenstein, and 40,000 troops who had fought in Prague or around Prague, were sent back by the Americans because they did not make it over the River Vlatava by the deadline of 12.00 midday on 9th May.

They were held by the Americans near Pisek until 11th May and then handed over to the Russians. To avoid that fate, Knebel committed suicide.

I assume that the SS "Böhmen group" accompanying LGG on 8th May had been fighting the Vlassov troops (ROA) and that is what you mean by the "Russians". Obviously LGG and the group of Waffen SS (in civvies) made it to the American lines, presumably because they had deserted from the main Wallenstein battle group. It was 8th May and the war was still on technically. Weidinger's surrender became effective only in the afternoon of 8th May. It is possible that the Americans sent back any members of Böhmen/Wallenstein who had made it to Rokycany, since the main block of the group has gone into Russian captivity.

As for LGG, if she was an SS Prague flak girl she would have been wearing Luftwaffe pants anyway.

I think the important point from your relative's story is that it appears that LGG had fled from Prague or at least the vicinity of Prague. Correct ?

About KG Wallenstein, I think the story is quite different.

44. Waffen-SS Panzergrenadier Division Wallenstein :
Graf von Pückler-Burghaus, Waffen-SS Commander for the Protectorate of Bohemia-Moravia, supposedly proposed the creation of a scratch SS division to be named Wallenstein. This "division" supposedly had four components - Kampfgruppen Klein, Jöchel, Reimann and Milowicz, each supposedly named after the CO. The unit is supposed to have participated in defending against the citizen's uprising against Prague in May 1945 and possibly in helping evacuate the volksdeutsche citizens of the city either alongside or as part of the 2nd SS Das Reich division.

There is evidence that this unit may have existed, although calling it a "division" is a major stretch. SS-Staf. Jöchel did command "SS-Junkerschule Prag" in March 1945. A "SS-Reit und Fahrschule" did exist at Milowitz in March 1945. (perhaps the kampgruppe was named after the location of the fahrschule instead of an officer) Prague's citizens did stage an uprising, did wreak havoc on the volksdeutsche population, and the Das Reich division did lead a civilian convoy out of the city in literally the last hours of the war. The US 5th Infantry Division newspaper of May 10, 1945 does mention SS-Kampfgruppen Klein and Jöchel.

The Wallenstein (which incidentally is also the name of a city) unit was most likely an ad-hoc scratch band of SS troops that operated in the vicinity of Prague during the last week of the war.

On 7 May 1945, all German forces were ordered to remain in their positions and surrender. Field Marshal Ferdinand Schörner, however, the commander of the Army Group Centre deployed in Bohemia, ordered his units to force their way westwards in order to surrender to American forces. The units reached the agreed demarcation line in western Bohemia and stopped there. Since the Soviet Army was still days away from the demarcation line, the partisans tried, mostly unsuccessfully, to stop the Germans, who responded with reprisals against the local population. On several occasions, Russian Liberation Army units – also trying to reach the Americans – skirmished with the Germans.

On 9 May, a large formation of German troops reached the area between villages Milín, Slivice and Čimelice (10 miles South-East of Rokycany) , near the demarcation line. Among them were parts of Kampfgruppe Wallenstein. The formation was commanded by SS-Gruppenführer and General-Leutnant of the Waffen-SS Karl Friedrich von Pückler-Burghauß. The soldiers were accompanied by fleeing German civilians. Because the road toward the Americans was blocked by local resistance units, von Pückler-Burghauß ordered the establishment of defensive lines.

On 11 May, partisan groups led by Soviet officer Yevgeniy Antonovich Olesenski attempted to storm the Germans and were decimated. Soviet Army units arrived that afternoon and attacked the Germans.

The attack started with a heavy artillery and rocket bombardment. The Soviet bombardment was supported by 4th Armored Division of the U.S. Third Army's XII Corps. Later, troops from the 1st, 2nd and 4th Ukrainian Fronts attacked the German positions. During the night, the defense collapsed and, at around 03:00 the 12th, General von Pückler-Burghauß signed the capitulation. The American negotiators refused to take the General, so, fearing revenge from the Russians, von Pückler-Burghauß shot himself on the 12th. About 6,000 soldiers and a large number of vehicles were captured.


Nothing say she is coming from Prag. She might still be part of many ss or non ss units, schools, labor camp in the vicinity.