1945 Lost German girl

[ignacioosacar]

I like stoneagegixer ideas too !

There was one MP platoon per Division. The US 16th Armored Division and the 2nd Infantry were the ones operating in the area. I am doubting if the 8th Armored was there also. I will have to check. Anyway , given the enormous flow of POW´s I suppose there were Infantry troops assigned to reinforce the MP´s in their duties. You can see several MP´s in different captions in the films posted in this thread.

Cheers

[stoneagegixer]

I think I like my Facebook post idea better. A picture of her, with a simple caption of anyone recognizing her and knowing her story. Then add a contact so that they can follow through with info.
I ve seen the same pic of a black kid opening his villages clean water well about 10 times over the year. So these pics get around. We might get lucky. But it has to be dramatic (beaten picture) , place, time, and something to evoke sympathy in people wanting to respond....
Don't identify it as a nazi girl or ss girl....maybe as "sudaten German" or just" unknown woman beaten by populace". As soon as you put nazi girl, you will get troll post about how much she deserved that and f+$k all nazis. ..etc

[poettchen]

Hello, this a highly interesting threat and I congratulate all participants for all the information they have been able to attain. On page 95 a Carsten Bergmann claims that the woman shown is Lara Bauer (b. 3 Feb. 1921 - d. 30 Oct. 1994) of Kollerschlag in Austria. I found this claim repeated on various websites. Has any more research been done on it? All I could find in this threat is that someone sent an e-mail to Kollerschlag, but received no response.

[billdi]

Hallo Poettchen,
At the time I have sent an email to the city hall of Kollerschlag in North-West Austria, close to Tjech border, but I never received an answer.
Carsten Bergmann never came back on this forum again, so he must be considered as spam. Impossible to contact him too

[lipka]

I think it's true information:
I think it's true information: http://a ... woman.html

[Mauser K98k]

Sorry, lipka. Nothing more than fanciful fiction. This was posted and debunked some time back within this thread.

BTW, welcome to AHF!

[Twin Headlamps]

There is no doubt the haunting music adds to the pull this clip has on a person.I felt really emotional when I saw the location snaps as it appears today.I intend to visit there one day.That will satisfy me I think.Dont mind now if we never know for sure but I think the photo of a younger girl could be her.The lips are identical.

[razorblade]

......especially the wounded and dying men on the side of the road in between the clips of the Lost German Girl.

Does anybody else wonder if they got through the day, and if so, what happened to them ?

The whole thread covers far more than the Lost German Girl, and is about an area not generally publicised in the documentaries of WW2. Taking a particular subject to focus upon, and then widening that focus, can mean learning many things that otherwise one would never know.

I am one of those that doubt anything new will be posted, but who knows ? As the thread stands it is a magnificent monument to the pain of war. And the shots of the German soldiers marching into captivity - just ordinary human beings like you and me. The Nazi's were the evil one's, not the brainwashed and the coerced.

Still - we obviously have learned nothing as far as I can see - politicians still lie to their people and go to war on that lie - and we do nothing.

cheers

Mars

They sure didn´t. The rules in the columns were clear: (the quote appears in the very same form in Russian convoys till this very day): step to the left, step to the right will considered attempt of escape, will shoot without any notice.

Also lot of guys who survived the convoying (and years in Siberia/GULAG after that) have written in their memoirs, that everyone who was too weak, too injured, sick or whatever - were shot pretty quickly dead in the end of the column, thus there were shooting all the time behind walking rows - those were the ones who were falling behind. Lot of soldiers carried a dudes or lend a shoulder to lean on to injured friend et. Also - the end of the war was extremely rough to men who were fighting at the front - last half a year there was almost no food, constant stress etc. etc.

Also - lot of columns didn´t let POW-s to drink, so some of soldiers went pretty nuts - they ran towards ditches if there was some piece of muddy rainwater, although guards were shooting them. That also weakened them. Needless to say - there was no eating whatsoever durong those convoys in Czhechoslovakia.

So those couple of guys we saw in the video - those were probably considered to die anyway, no need to spend a bullet or raise a hand to aim a gun. Most likely they were still shot to death by some passing russian soldiers.

[razorblade]

Forgive me if this as already been posted (there's a lot of info in this thread that I probably missed!), but there's also a little bit more video footage of what appears to be this Lost German Girl. Looks to be the same jumper and trousers and also the fact she is tending to an injury on her left side of her face/eye, similar to the injuries shown in the walking footage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ay4Sc6Z ... tu.be&t=1m

She also seems to be talking with other German prisoners and at one point appears to be smiling, or even laughing gently.

Lost German Girl.jpg

Some have made the comparison of LGG to the other girl's face to camera picture and that they probably aren't the same based on subtle differences between facial features. I think people need to bear in mind, one's environmental conditions can alter one's appearance, even ever so slightly. I'd like to add that when I was a soldier and first went to Afghanistan I was physically fit and healthy looking. After just a couple of months (excessive exertion/stress and usual combat related conditions) I was much leaner and gaunt looking. If I were to show a before and after picture of myself from back then, you would see just how much my face had changed.

Actually watching that I change my mind about possibilites about her occupation and stuff... you know, guys, I have an idea. In my small country we have a forum for military history fans - and those guys are experts about WW2 stuff. I will post this thread there and let them analyze the dudes, with whom LGG is sitting down with, analyze the column clothes etc.

[ignacioosacar]

Dear Razorblade,

It is a good idea to augment LLG investigation forces. Nevertheless it is advisable to follow the a basic rule in criminal, intelligence / counterintelligence investigation: If an old case has been showing no significant progress for a considerable time, then the case officer should go back to page one and start reading it all over again. Maybe he has missed something.

Cheers

[ignacioosacar]

Dear Forum,

…when you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.’

Sherlock Holmes Quote

[razorblade]

Mr. Holmes, however, is not too good of a source to criminalistic knowledge Considering he is only a written character by ACDoyle, who himself was a doctor and had no attachment with true criminalistics whatsoever

[billdi]

Dear Forum,

…when you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.’

Sherlock Holmes Quote

give it uo Ignacio, you wont't be able to kiss her anymore

[Twin Headlamps]

In view of the fact that lgg had at least some interaction with Haglund should we not respect him enough to accept his stating that she was SS? He was there and he spoke to her.
Also it is felt generally that the girl in the photo is not her.But can she be eliminated for a certainty?I think not.
Some of us would love a positive identity.Others feel it is an invasion of privacy.
It has been an amazing journey and may continue for a long time yet.Well done everybody who have put themselves out in the quest

[razorblade]

No. First - how in the world could Haglund know if the girl was SS or not?

But second: I´m from Estonia, so let me give you a little history lesson:

Almost all troops which germans formed on occupied territories at the end of the war - where formed formally under SS legislation - the real SS or remains of it were hiding themselves in germany, mostly in Berlin.

All estonians for example who fought at the end of the war in Narva front (in Estonia) against russians - near 100 000 men - all those men (lots of them volunteers) were formed as "20th. Estonian Division", which was formally part of Waffen-SS. None of these guys never had anything to do with real SS - "Schutztaffel" - which was Germany´s nazi party´s (NSDAP) armed agency - basically "secret police" of the nazi Germany´s regime (the same applies for most eastern european soldiers at the end of the war).

20. Estonian Division was formed and fought in Estonia, the remains of it after Soviet troops occupied Estonia - were forced to retreat with other German troops (formed from other europeans from occupied territories and also some germans). The end of the war catched them exactly at the place where the video is made - in Chzechoslovakia, near Prague or Pilsen. After leaving Estonia - 20. Estonian Division had almost no battles - just retreating. So lot of troops, who were capted at this area at 8th of may, were in case estonians.

About occupations and fighting: Estonia was occupied at very first by Russia - 1939 till 1941. Then it was occupied (with all other eastern european countries) by nazi -Germany till 1944 - and then again by Soviet Russia. As Soviet Unions first occupation was brutal (not only in Estonia, but other Baltic States as well, Poland, Ukraine etc - huge massacres, deportations to Siberia where most died, tens of thousands thrown to jail, brutal raping etc.) - lots of estonians at first greeted germans as liberators, when they occupied estonian territory @1941. The joy was left short - as it quickly appeared germans had no intention to give country back, they also held their own prison camp and executed political prisoners (mostly reds and estonian jews). So when Red Army started to approach Baltic States at 1944 - most estonians (who weren´t already forcefully mobilized to Red Army) - chose to fight with german weapons in German uniforms against Soviet Russian offensive - as Russian occupation had been much, much more brutal. Those estonians were formed as forementioned 20th. Estonian Division, part of Waffen-SS. Most of them did´nt get any SS-markings, but those, who got month or two training either in Czhechoslovakia or germany - mostly young boys in age 16-18, who were part of either artillery supporting units or air force service units or air defense supporting etc. - they got blood group number tattooed (as it was done in SS) under the arm.
In czhechoslovakia lot of these guys - who had never been in frontline - were executed - mostly by red czhechoslovakian partizans, because of that blood group number. Of course - soviet troops killed their fair share, too. Needless to say - those guys were mostly forcefully mobilisated and had never had any kind of battle action. Those who volunteered to fight russians - they were on front with 20th Estonian Division infantry and were left unmarked - although 20. ED was walso formally under Waffen SS legislation.

What I´m trying to say, is - basically no-one in Czhechoslovakia at the 8th of may 1945 - was not real SS (but most of the troops in Czhecoslovakia at the 8th of may 1945 were formed under SS legislation, although most of soldiers were not even germans). So its meaningful to quit stupid discussions about weather she was SS or not. (By that time last prison camps were abandoned - prison camps were indeed guarded by SS underunits - but those guys left in a hurry week earlier. Real SS knew better.).

This couple of weeks in Czcechoslovakia (from 6. may to 20. may approximately) are known as "Czhechoslovakian Hell" in this part of the world - as there were like 5% of soldiers just executed without any reason, court whatsoever. Basically at 6th of may partisans started to stop small troops and make suggestions to put down the arms (almost everyone in Czhechoslovakia that time were heading towards United States managed area - West - guess why.) Most of those, who were stupid enough to do that, where robbed and executed right away.

At 8. of may it was a living hell, as war had ended. Red partizans were drunk and armed, and there was absolute killing festival - as all german side troops layed down arms - and partizans went crazy. When russians arrived, it almost went a bit better. Random killings were part of this whole 2 weeks, also while convoying soldiers as POW-s towards Poland - passing soviet soldiers just emptied their machine guns to columns etc. There where occasions, where tanks drove into the columns or shot to the column etc. Most of those who got left behind or fell down - where shot dead etc. Most estonian soldiers are describing "czhech hell" in their memoirs as something utterly unhuman, even compared to the war itself at front line ditches. That was something else.

Thats the unvisible background of this video.