1945 Lost German girl

Discussions on the role played by and situation of women in the Third Reich not covered in the other sections. Hosted by Vikki.
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stello
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Location: Italy

Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

#631

Post by stello » 23 Nov 2012, 01:02

Hello Ignacio, hello Forum,
just a question about the milestone for Jan2, our “detective on the spot”.
Here is a short quote I’ve found in a Czech link talking about Litice -south of Pilsen- (http://litice.wz.cz/historie.html): "...Od r.1938 až do r.1945 byla obec, jako jediná v okresu připojena k německé říši. V současné době tvoří samostatný městský obvod...".
I think that the border line between the Reich and the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia in the years 1938/45 passed in Litice. Can you cofirm that?
If the answer is yes we can confirm also that the lower digit is a 17: the distance between the milestone -and the LGG location- and the border.
I can bet that the localization of LGG is actually between Ejpovice and Rokykany as Heimatschuss assumed on page 13 of this thread.
I enclose three graphic works. take your considerations...
Cheers, Stefano
Attachments
general view.jpg
general view
detail 1.jpg
detail 1
detail 2.jpg
detail 2

ignacioosacar
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Location: Argentina

Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

#632

Post by ignacioosacar » 23 Nov 2012, 01:46

Hello Stello,

Very good work!

I suppose we´ll have to check the old maps

Cheers!

Ignacio


brick2
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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

#633

Post by brick2 » 23 Nov 2012, 05:44

National road 14 Nurnberg to Prague ,top numbers to where you are going 78km to Prague,bottom numbers where you came from 217 km to Nurnberg( Nuremberg )

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Dr Eisvogel
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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

#634

Post by Dr Eisvogel » 23 Nov 2012, 12:13

stello wrote: Here is a short quote I’ve found in a Czech link talking about Litice -south of Pilsen- (http://litice.wz.cz/historie.html): "...Od r.1938 až do r.1945 byla obec, jako jediná v okresu připojena k německé říši. V současné době tvoří samostatný městský obvod...".
I think that the border line between the Reich and the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia in the years 1938/45 passed in Litice. Can you cofirm that?
Dear Stefano,

the translation is:
"From 1938 until 1945 the municipality [of Litice] was, as the only one in the district [of Plzeň/Pilsen] annexed to the German Reich. Currently, it forms an independent city quarter..."

So, municipality of Litice [German: Lititz] was a part of Sudetenland annexed to the German Reich and it wasn't a part of the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia.

Administrative map: http://www.odboj.estranky.cz/fotoalbum/ ... 42..-.html
Administrative diagram of Litice 1938-1945: http://gov.genealogy.net/item/show/LITITZJN69QQ

Thank you on the wonderful work.

Best regards,
Eisvogel

stello
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Location: Italy

Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

#635

Post by stello » 23 Nov 2012, 14:42

Thank you brick2, thank you Dr Eisvogel for your clarifications.
In both cases the result does not changes: LGG location is 217 (circa) kilometres from Nurnberg and probably 17 kilometres from the border...
Jan2, could you take a picture from the LGG location i pointed in my graphic work trying to match it with the still-frame i posted on page 30 (and down here...)?
Cheers, Stefano
Attachments
Immagine 1.png
LGG location
ejpovice 1945 01.jpg
LGG still-frame
ejpovice 1945 01.jpg (100.92 KiB) Viewed 1038 times

brick2
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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

#636

Post by brick2 » 23 Nov 2012, 21:09

Stello google street view is available for that location

stello
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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

#637

Post by stello » 23 Nov 2012, 22:27

Thank you, brick2...

brick2
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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

#638

Post by brick2 » 23 Nov 2012, 23:39

The roadside trees in Jan2's 1947 photo should be a clue to the exact location too.

MarcelH
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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

#639

Post by MarcelH » 24 Nov 2012, 15:57

brick2 wrote:The roadside trees in Jan2's 1947 photo should be a clue to the exact location too.
I would use that photo too, it is the most accurate picture of that time we have.
Todays pics show a lot of changes to the landscape, especially to the road and it's shoulders. (tree line).
If her pinpoint location is determined, it is I think, easy to determine her location on todays map.

MarcelH
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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

#640

Post by MarcelH » 24 Nov 2012, 16:01

Also a question about the black boxes along the road shown in the footage of her.
What are they? In one clip you can see that the top half of the front is openend, (shown in still photo above. white window frame) in the other clip of her it is closed.

ignacioosacar
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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

#641

Post by ignacioosacar » 24 Nov 2012, 22:58

Dear Marcel H,

What black boxes ? Do you mean the sideroad ditch ?

Cheers

Ignacio

ignacioosacar
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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

#642

Post by ignacioosacar » 24 Nov 2012, 23:39

Dear Stello and Forum,

My choice is 720 meters West from your LGG position. Where an unpaved secondary road connects to the main road.

The white road seen at LGG back seems to be matching very closely the road on the map . It runs in the general direction SSE to NE into Ejpovice.

The terrain is higher at the right side of the road and presumably ( not seen in the caption ) is lower at the left side.

The Google altitude indicator reading is 392 m at 150 meters South of the crossroads and 380 m at 150 m North.

So, presuming LGG is facing West in the caption, this might well be the spot, considering that there is at least a 12 meter slope in just 300 meters.

Maybe a 15 degree gradient ?

Cheers all!

Ignacio

HansW
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Location: Donegal / Ireland

Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

#643

Post by HansW » 25 Nov 2012, 01:07

Hi
I looked it up, and the border crossing is Waldhaus for R14 (b14), not Litice. (see my link earlier).
the black boxes used to hold grit for winter. They used to have them on gradients.

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Dr Eisvogel
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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

#644

Post by Dr Eisvogel » 25 Nov 2012, 12:09

HansW wrote:Hi
I looked it up, and the border crossing is Waldhaus, not Litice. (see my link earlier).
the black boxes used to hold grit for winter. They used to have them on gradients.
After looking at the road marker again and again, it seems that the cipher in front of the 7 is round on the top, which leads me to think tht it is a 0 more so, -- one way or another the 78 stands and makes sense.
Dear HansW,

the border crossing is Waidhaus, not Waldhaus and after annexation of Sudetenland it ceased to be a border crossing between the Reich and Czechoslovakia, because the border crossing was moved eastwards to the new border (somewhere close to Pilsen (Czech: Plzeň)) between the Reich (including Sudetenland) and Czechoslovakia and from the month of March of 1939 between the Reich and the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia.

The map you provided is from 1938, but before the Munich Agreement, so the German-Czech(oslovak) border is on the old and current line and not adjusted for the annexation of the Sudetenland.

Just one example from the map you provided, the city of Mies (Czech: Stříbro) on the road from Waidhaus to Pilsen (Czech: Plzeň) was annexed by Germany according to the Munich Agreement, however on the map you provided it is still in Czechoslovakia.

The important information provided by you is that Litice is not on the Prague-Nuremberg road, but on the Pilsen-Passau road.

Another map of the area from 1941:
http://www.oahshb.cz/staremapy/full/1941-22.jpg

Close-up of the map:
Image

Regarding the border crossing between the Reich and the Protectorate on the Prague-Nuremberg road it must have been either a bit east of the village of Nürschan (Czech: Nýřany), which is 25.3km west of Ejpovice according to the Google Maps or judging by the map I posted it would be a bit to the east of the town of Tuschkau (Czech: Touškov) which is 21.1km from Ejpovice and therefore more likely candidate for the border crossing at 17km of distance from Ejpovice than Nürschan.

Best regards,
Eisvogel

HansW
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Location: Donegal / Ireland

Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

#645

Post by HansW » 25 Nov 2012, 18:12

Thanks Eisvogel
That explains the matter. I was in contact with my father now 85, and he told me that the R numbering System was extended to the east with the annexation, ie. R14 then was the Road Nuremberg to Prag. (straight numbers: east to west, odd numbers North to south) he also confirmed, that the new border was close to Pilsen after 1939, because the Sudetenland was taken over first.

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