Martin Bormann & his wife Gerda

Discussions on the role played by and situation of women in the Third Reich not covered in the other sections.
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rjbama
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Martin Bormann & his wife Gerda

Postby rjbama » 09 Jul 2011 01:38

I just finished reading a book about Martin Bormann's letters to his wife during WWII. He apparently loved her very much as did she him by their letters. She had bought into the concept (may have been her husband's) that all valuable men of the Reich should have more than 1 wife so they could populate the new Germany. Martin refers to a mistress called "M" in his letters to his wife who was an actress. Does anyone know who this lady was? Her name is never given in the book and she is only referred to as "M".

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Re: Martin Bormann & his wife Gerta

Postby Oberhessin » 10 Jul 2011 16:12

Manja Behrens.

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Annelie
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Re: Martin Bormann & his wife Gerta

Postby Annelie » 10 Jul 2011 18:02


I just finished reading a book about Martin Bormann's letters to his wife during WWII. He apparently loved her very much as did she him by their letters


Just couldn't let this go......


according to Walter Darré, Reichsleiter of the Peasantry and sometime witness to the lord and master's bad behaviour,
chez bormann, pitied her. According to him, she was constantly "tormented by this extremely brutul mann...who
took delight in humilitating his wife....in front of strangers.


from the secretary Martim Bormann by Jochen von Lang

Read other account of this mans bad behaviour to his wife and sometimes I think cruel to his children.


they were not allowed to talk to strangers or play with children they did not know because he was afraid they would say too much and get him in trouble. Given to sudden rages and always arbitrary, he would beat them over trifles-with a dog whip, according to one eyewitness and with a riding whip, according to another.

He beat two of his children while they were on an outing because they were scared of a large German shephard. When one of his sons stumbled in a puddle, he punished him with kicks. Yet he was concerned about the children during his absences, and he used to write Gerda telling her what she was to teach them: never play with matches, never accept candy from a stranger, never get into a stranger's car. He was very proud of them when he was asked to bring them to the Berghof to call on Hitler, who always patted their heads and seemed diverted by their ingenuous talk.


this also from the Bormann book.

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Re: Martin Bormann & his wife Gerta

Postby J. Duncan » 10 Jul 2011 20:40

I have read both Jochen von Lang's book (very good book) as well as "The Bormann Letters". The letters were published by Francois Genoud, a Swiss with Nazi sympathies. The letters do seem to indicate a couple who were "on the same page" ideologically, and von Lang also confirms this more than once in his book. Martin was a tough, coarse, peasant type, very strict and severe but not really unlike a lot of fathers and husbands of that time period (that includes those in democratic countries as well - my father got his fair share of ass-whippings - with a belt, and so did I - hence the old saying "spare the rod and spoil the child"...today, you can't even spank your child). We tend to judge these people according to our own social mores. By our standards, Bormann treated his wife like a dog (he used to even whistle for her too!)...but she was a willing accomplice to her own domesticality and submitted to his will willingly. The letters do however indicate a very close relationship between them.

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Re: Martin Bormann & his wife Gerta

Postby Annelie » 10 Jul 2011 22:56

The letters do seem to indicate a couple who were "on the same page" ideologically, and von Lang also confirms this more than once in his book.


Yes, your correct on that point. I disagree otherwise. Its been noted by more than several people commented on the way he treated his wife plus most people around him disliked him for his personality. Just because his wife
how should I say it "took it" with a smile doesn't mean that it was right. Speer never treated his wife that
way nor did Göring or many others.

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Re: Martin Bormann & his wife Gerta

Postby J. Duncan » 11 Jul 2011 20:11

It may not be right, nevertheless their relationship "was what it was". They were both committed Nazis, and despite what others said, theirs was on the whole a happy arrangement. Their letters attest to this. A "sweet innocent" or "abused victim" Gerda was not. She was a hard nosed National Socialist and could be just as cruel in her thinking as her husband. She wrote many letters to Bormann stating that enemies of the Reich need to be destroyed, especially the Jews..much of what she wrote was in full agreement with her husband yet she even egged him on occassionally if she felt his spirits were lagging. Bormann tells her in one of his letters that she made him "supremely happy". She was the daughter of a tough Old Fighter (Walter Buch) and became the wife of a man who looked upon Hitler as his God. Gerda even turned against her own parents when they became estranged from their powerful son-in-law. Not only that, she repudiated her strict Lutheran upringing for a sort of Nibelung worship in which the Nazis became for her the heroic Knights of Siegfried in a world battle against the evil spawn of Alberich - the Jews.

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Re: Martin Bormann & his wife Gerta

Postby Annelie » 11 Jul 2011 20:30

Its obvious you know much more than I do about their marriage so I concede.

I only read from accounts of other people and never really checked into
their marriage.

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Re: Martin Bormann & his wife Gerta

Postby J. Duncan » 11 Jul 2011 21:12

Annelie
I may pull the book from my shelves and post a few tidbits from their letters. I think you will find some of them enlightening. I know I was surprised by a few of them when I first read them. Gerda was somewhat childish in her views.
Dominated by men all her life, she tended to take on the views of her domineering husband and simply expanded them. Both were convinced of a "final victory" despite the REALITY of the situation. Both seem to look to each other for reinforcement.
Most of the Nazi elite hated Bormann...I mean HATED HIM WITH A PASSION. They also feared him. That Darré said he carried on towards his wife "like some bum from the slums" (Jochen von Lang) is quite prejudiced since Darré hated Bormann (Bormann was instrumental in getting Darre removed from his post). There is some truth to it I suppose but one also has to consider the fact that those who wrote or said these derogatory things about Bormann were those who hated the man's guts. Speer certainly hated him, as did just about everyone else in the dock at Nuremberg. A man's personal life is also where many people like to "hit below the belt" so to speak. Bormann was very careful not to get to close to anybody...not even an old drinking buddy like Hermann Fegelein escaped Bormann's wrath.

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Re: Martin Borman & his wife Gerta

Postby murx » 11 Jul 2011 21:36

Count of Schaumburg-Lippe: Rosenberg likely, his wife undoubtedly, were Russian spies. Bormann also had old relationships to Russia, "but exactly the wrong ones"-(Goebbels). Bormann was named by Goebbels "the criminal of the Reichskanzlei".

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Re: Martin Bormann & his wife Gerta

Postby J. Duncan » 12 Jul 2011 09:49

Looking at the book "The Bormann Letters". Martin addresses his wife as "My Darling Mummy Girl", "My Darling!", "My Sweet!", "My Darling Companion". Gerda mostly addresses her husband as "My Dearest Husband" or "My Darling Daddy".


Here is a letter of Gerda's to Martin: (pg. 176-178)

Obersalzberg 7.2.1945

....On the radio they are singing the hymn "Und wenn die Welt voll Teufel war". Without knowing it, Luther wrote a real Nazi song! The world is indeed "full of devils" and will probably remain so, with the difference that things may not go so well for the devils as they are for the moment. "They may take from us our bodies, property, honour, children, and wives - the Kingdom of the Reich will remain ours still." This is so much in keeping with the thought of our age...The Reich will emerge victorious even if we don't survive. The Fuhrer has given us our idea of the Reich which has spread throughout the world...One day, the Reich of our dreams shall emerge. Shall we, I wonder, or our children live to see it? (MB: I HAVE EVERY HOPE THAT WE SHALL). In some ways you know, this reminds me of the 'Twilight of the Gods' in the Edda. The giants and dwarfs, the Fenris wolf and the snake of Mitgard, and all the forces of evil are in league against the Gods; the majority have fallen already, and already the monsters are storming the bridge of the Gods; the armies of the fallen heroes fight an invisible battle, the Valkyries join in, the citadel crumbles, all seems lost; and then, suddenly a new citadel rises, more beautiful than before, and Baldur lives again.
Daddy, it is always astonishing to see how close our forefathers in their myths, and particularly in the Edda, are to our own times. It is as if it were a symbol and a dark image of the present. Has this always been so I wonder or do we notice it because we are so sharply conscious of the ties of blood that join us to the men who wrote that poetry?
We are not the first to engage in mortal combat the powers of the underworld, and that we feel compelled to do so should give us a conviction of ultimate victory.
My beloved, I am wholly and utterly yours, and we will live to fight on, even if only a single one of our children survives this awful conflagration. Your Mummy.

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Re: Martin Bormann & his wife Gerta

Postby Annelie » 12 Jul 2011 11:22

Thankyou J. Duncan.

Its hard to concieve that there actually was people with that mind set. I guess in this case people of the same
mind really did find each other. I can only wonder now how the children turned out?

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Re: Martin Bormann & his wife Gerta

Postby J. Duncan » 12 Jul 2011 21:48

I know what you mean. It was an entirely different world for these people and quite hard for us to visualise in our post-modernist era. The Bormanns were "true believers" (in the Eric Hofer sense of the term)..believers in an ideology which was based upon a racialist Darwinism, the "Führer principle", and an anti-Christian and paganistic "Weltanschauung". "The Bormann Letters" do make for fascinating reading however. Himmler is often referred to as "Uncle Heini" (I believe one of Lang's chapters is titled such). I've actually ordered the Lang book from my local library as a result of this discussion. Jochen von Lang wrote perhaps the best book written on Bormann and if anyone wants to know more about the various Gauleiters this is also a good book to start with....Lang has chapters such as "The Stick for the Gauleiters" and "The Golden Pheasants". He also goes into Bormann's role in the Freikorps "Parchim Murder" in which Rudolf Höß was a direct participant, killing his former teacher (walter kadow, suspected of betraying Albert leo Schlageter to the French)...with a gun, a knife, and a birch log (they got him drunk at a bar, boot stomped him into the ground, shot him, clubbed his skull with a log-*Höß... then finally slitting his throat!). Bormann spent a year in prison for planning this murder. Bormann also was involved in the Kapp Putsch, so despite his youth, Bormann went very far back with the nationalist movements. Thanks for recapturing my interest in this figure and the Lang book. I had forgotten about what an informative book that one was. How many "Bormanns" are amongst us today? Lang asks this very question in the introduction. Bormann was such a hidden figure, scheming in the background. Only power mattered, not the limelight.

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Re: Martin Bormann & his wife Gerta

Postby Annelie » 12 Jul 2011 22:13

The Secretary - Martin Bormann by Lang made for interesting reading. I bought the book
over ten years ago now. I have forgotten a lot on what was written but it made an impression on
me and I distinctly decided I disliked the man a lot. Of course I had also read from many other
view points about the man. In fact I think if I was alive in those times I would be terrified of this man.
He was indeed powerful and very vindictive.

I think I will reread it again. There is an lovely photo of Bormann's mistress Manja Behrens. It stated that
today 1979 she is an actress engaged by the state, in East Germany. She certainly was a beautiful women.
Looking back today its all strange.

Some of these people seems to not be real but I have to admit I liked Speer a lot.

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Re: Martin Bormann & his wife Gerta

Postby Helly Angel » 13 Jul 2011 01:56

Image

Manja Behrens... is the same woman?

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Annelie
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Re: Martin Bormann & his wife Gerta

Postby Annelie » 13 Jul 2011 02:04

Very well could be, at least it looks like her, the photo in the book is dated 1936.
She was standing with side profile in a Dietrich like top hat and a cut out dress wearing no
bra. with feathers around her neck. One can see why Bormann was attracted to her.

She must have been very young.


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