Nazi woman brought to justice

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TedjeX
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Nazi woman brought to justice

#1

Post by TedjeX » 21 Sep 2015, 20:31

Hello,
I was wondering if anyone could tell me who the nazi woman is that has to face the court.She is 90 yoa and a telegrafist ,it was in today,s (21/9/2015)news but i cannot find it anymore.Who was she and what is her name?
Anyone?
Tnx
Ted

ChristopherPerrien
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Re: Nazi woman brought to justice

#2

Post by ChristopherPerrien » 21 Sep 2015, 20:55

http://www.kxxv.com/story/30078165/91-y ... llegations

Probably won't be named unless charges are filed.


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Annelie
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Re: Nazi woman brought to justice

#3

Post by Annelie » 22 Sep 2015, 00:10

Seems this lady was only there a short time of four months.
Prosecutors argue that she can be charged as an accessory because she helped the death camp function.

TedjeX
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Re: Nazi woman brought to justice

#4

Post by TedjeX » 23 Sep 2015, 17:10

Tnx for your replies,i found out/read that she will be brought to justice and judged as a minor,coz at the time she was under age!!!

tnx
ted

ChristopherPerrien
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Re: Nazi woman brought to justice

#5

Post by ChristopherPerrien » 24 Sep 2015, 13:47

Yes , most certainly when she was not answering a telephone , she was tossing screaming babies into ovens.

adolf5
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Re: Nazi woman brought to justice

#6

Post by adolf5 » 27 Nov 2015, 06:04

This is getting beyond ridiculous. Who will they go after next? How about the train drivers, the people who made the uniforms, the secretarial staff, The builders who built the camps? when will they stop? Let's be honest the real monsters of the nazi regime are now either dead, too old and infirm to prosecute or so well hidden within society that they will never be found. The Holocaust was one of the worst atrocities ever committed I agree. Going after and prosecuting telephone operator's who will have had no choice but to do the job they were ordered to do though is absolutely ridiculous and going too far.

T Rex
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Re: Nazi woman brought to justice

#7

Post by T Rex » 11 Mar 2016, 02:35

Why they don’t go on Wall Street or Brooklyn to arrest someone? People are not blind today and see who is the real enemy of people.

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Re: Nazi woman brought to justice

#8

Post by Sejanus » 15 Mar 2016, 09:34

T Rex wrote:Why they don’t go on Wall Street or Brooklyn to arrest someone? People are not blind today and see who is the real enemy of people.
Those big Wall Street types are protected by their power, their fantastic wealth and the influence it buys among politicians and others. So prosecutions are few. It's the "Golden Rule" - he who has the gold makes the rules.

In the meantime, the legal standard (charging decisions) regarding those implicated in the Holocaust has changed. It used to be that an accused individual had to be directly and personally involved in crimes in order to be charged (Franz Stangl for example). Now even indirect involvement is enough, such as the telephonist being charged...

J. Duncan
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Re: Nazi woman brought to justice

#9

Post by J. Duncan » 22 Mar 2016, 10:25

None of this is helping anybody and it isn't "justice". In the public view It has the appearance of tormenting the elderly in their final moments.

ChristopherPerrien
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Re: Nazi woman brought to justice

#10

Post by ChristopherPerrien » 23 Mar 2016, 14:27

TedjeX wrote:Hello,
I was wondering if anyone could tell me who the nazi woman is that has to face the court.She is 90 yoa and a telegrafist ,it was in today,s (21/9/2015)news but i cannot find it anymore.Who was she and what is her name?
Anyone?
Tnx
Ted
Going back and looking at this the term 'Nazi woman", it is is incorrect and is seriously a loaded damning doublespeak code-word. She was a German girl. And I seriously seriously doubt was ever a member of the NSDAP. Now the term "NAZI" it seems is equated in the MSM, to Germans in general and also anyone of a variety of nations, skin shades, political outlook, etc.

From now on since my original ancestor "Perrien" who was a baker and came to New Orleans, USA from Germany back in the late 1800's , anyone here can call me a NAZI, and I will just take it as a compliment to that ancestor. :D

Mary Jane
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Re: Nazi woman brought to justice

#11

Post by Mary Jane » 24 Mar 2016, 19:37

Here is a new link to the story which does work:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/s ... death-camp

I don't see anything wrong in identifying the woman as a Nazi and when referring to the period she was working in the camp.

On her arrest today: Nobody says that she herself killed anybody, even Adolf Hitler himself did not *personally* killed anybody if you see what I mean... Considering that most key Nazis just got away with it, living "peaceful" lives well into their 80s, count for example Mengele, then sure a poor, now 91 years old "just a" telegraphist should be left alone and not be held responsible for anything at all, yes?... That was the logic made Holocaust possible in the first place. And Holocaust was necessarily the product of a huge, collective mechanism, for fact, and not for the sake of blaming anybody. It would not be possible without all the clerical staff, secretaries, and yes, telegraphists too. Especially them.

If you'd like to get further perspective on that, I recommend the books "IBM and the Holocaust" and "Hitler's Furies: German Women in the Nazi Killing Fields".

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Gorque
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Re: Nazi woman brought to justice

#12

Post by Gorque » 24 Mar 2016, 23:45

So would you also refer to any of the many non-German non-party natives that worked in a German camp outside of Germany proper a Nazi as well?

Sejanus
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Re: Nazi woman brought to justice

#13

Post by Sejanus » 25 Mar 2016, 01:39

Mary Jane wrote:It would not be possible without all the clerical staff, secretaries, and yes, telegraphists too. Especially them.
:welcome:

Especially telegraphists? I would think especially the leadership and those directly involved in the killings instead. But the pickings are getting slim. Not many of them are left so the criteria to prosecute has been expanded into this "complicity" or "accessory" legal theory, allowing for those very minor functionaries to be included in such criminal charging decisions. While I may be mistaken, it seems more politically driven now as opposed to a true quest for "justice." Otherwise why wait so long? Not even Simon Wiesenthal bothered with people like this woman.

On the other hand, my understanding is that SS-Helferinnen (as I believe this woman was) were all volunteers. We don't know what aggravating or mitigating circumstances there might have been in her life that led her to a place like Auschwitz, other than her (likely) volunteering to work there. Volunteering to work in a place like Auschwitz is reprehensible, based on what we know now (what did she know of the camp's function?). But whether this justifies such a prosecution in her case, I am unsure. I would like to know more about her case.

Mary Jane
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Re: Nazi woman brought to justice

#14

Post by Mary Jane » 25 Mar 2016, 12:08

Gorque wrote:So would you also refer to any of the many non-German non-party natives that worked in a German camp outside of Germany proper a Nazi as well?
By definition, no. Speaking strictly related to this topic (the woman) please suggest me an alternative/better/or a more politically correct term to define somebody who had a direct involvement with a Nazi camp (like Auschwitz) and had collaborated with pretty much the Nazis themselves in her own role, in implementing the "final solution". Ok, I found it myself "the Nazi collaborator", and I see that this term also refers to the (vast) group of people you refer to. I don't think the motive of these people changes anything with that.

Again, my purpose is not to bash (now) an old woman, people just tend to easily dismiss or downplay the role of "simple, ordinary" people as such (in implementing mass exterminations) as if it had never existed.

"I was just a telegraphist/just a secretary/just a nurse."... Well if it weren't for everybody who has just been something like this, the Holocaust would not be possible, and all I try to convey is this understanding. Here I don't think the case is "justice" now. It's long gone, too late, it doesn't matter for people who are long dead or in their 90s now. The understanding matters...

Mary Jane
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Re: Nazi woman brought to justice

#15

Post by Mary Jane » 25 Mar 2016, 12:51

Sejanus wrote:
Mary Jane wrote:It would not be possible without all the clerical staff, secretaries, and yes, telegraphists too. Especially them.
:welcome:

Especially telegraphists? I would think especially the leadership and those directly involved in the killings instead. But the pickings are getting slim. Not many of them are left so the criteria to prosecute has been expanded into this "complicity" or "accessory" legal theory, allowing for those very minor functionaries to be included in such criminal charging decisions. While I may be mistaken, it seems more politically driven now as opposed to a true quest for "justice." Otherwise why wait so long? Not even Simon Wiesenthal bothered with people like this woman.

On the other hand, my understanding is that SS-Helferinnen (as I believe this woman was) were all volunteers. We don't know what aggravating or mitigating circumstances there might have been in her life that led her to a place like Auschwitz, other than her (likely) volunteering to work there. Volunteering to work in a place like Auschwitz is reprehensible, based on what we know now (what did she know of the camp's function?). But whether this justifies such a prosecution in her case, I am unsure. I would like to know more about her case.
Thank you for your comment Sejanus.

In my original post, what "them" exactly refers to is clear.

I also made it clear (in my reply to @Gorque) that I don't believe in "prosecution" now. What I believe is a true understanding of what has happened, how and why. It's impossible to disagree that "the leadership and those directly involved in the killings" were responsible. We are in disagreement in that I don't think "complicity" or "accessory" is just a legal theory, carrying of no value other than "judging some poor people today due to some political agenda", but these words reflect the fact as to what has happened or the role these people played in it. Exactly what we discuss here then, is the "extent" of this role... It seems very unimportant and mundane, easily dismissable to most people (including the very people who has worked in Auschwitz), and I say, this understanding does not reflect the truth. Without all of these "ordinary workers", the Holocaust could not be implemented. If I am to promote anything, it is this understanding and nothing else.

Everybody involved in Auschwitz knew what they were in for.

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