Women in combat in the Wehrmacht.

Discussions on the role played by and situation of women in the Third Reich not covered in the other sections. Hosted by Vikki.
von Loringen
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Women in combat in the Wehrmacht.

#1

Post by von Loringen » 24 May 2005, 21:28

I am looking for information about women who took part in active combat operations in the Wehrmacht, both officially and disguised as men.

Some time ago I encountered a photograph of a group of women in Kriegsmarine uniforms posing togother with one male officer after having been awarded the Iron Cross 1st Class, which was of course supposed to be awarded only for combat. (Though I know they made an exception for test pilots).

Also, I am aware of numerous instances of German women serving in male guise in the armed forces in the 1st World War. I would be very suprised if it did not also happen in the 2nd World War, but I have yet to find any evidence of it.

If anyone has any information, especially diaries, letters, accounts of relatives or photos, I would very much appreciate the sharing any information you have. I am trying to buiild up a database of this rather overlooked military history subject.

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eindhoven
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#2

Post by eindhoven » 24 May 2005, 22:27

Interesting. I have a newspaper article that chronicles the awarding of the EK II to a nurse for her actions. I will have to dig it out of the mapcase it is in for details.

I am sure you are aware of the various helferin positions filled during the war.

Are you looking for something akin to the female soviet snipers, soldiers, tankers, pilots? If such a thing existed it is news to me.


von Loringen
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#3

Post by von Loringen » 25 May 2005, 17:46

Well, yes exactly. I too had been unaware of the Germans ever allowing women to do anything like that. But then I saw the photo, and knowing that the EK.I was supposed to be awarded for combat actions, it made me wonder. Perhaps in the final months of the war the German became desperate and used women in combat as well, the way they did with Hitlerjugend units, such as in the defence of Berlin?

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RB
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#4

Post by RB » 25 May 2005, 18:09

Many women served as Flak-crews.

RB

Gothard
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#5

Post by Gothard » 26 May 2005, 01:18

Theres a photo circulating on one of the High Quality German websites dedicated to the wehrmacht showing a young woman in full uniform being led to execution and then at the moment of death after being shot. Battle of Berlin I think. She was an obvious combatant.

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#6

Post by von Loringen » 26 May 2005, 05:35

Interesting. Any story with the photo? Do you happen to remember the aything about the website?

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#7

Post by Gothard » 26 May 2005, 06:04

von Loringen wrote:Interesting. Any story with the photo? Do you happen to remember the aything about the website?
I believe the photo is on the feldgrau site and there was a short explanation. it was in the casualty section - death photos and its pretty graphic, the girl was pretty and looked half starved.

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Vikki
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Re: Women in combat in the Wehrmacht.

#8

Post by Vikki » 30 May 2005, 04:49

von Loringen wrote:Some time ago I encountered a photograph of a group of women in Kriegsmarine uniforms posing togother with one male officer after having been awarded the Iron Cross 1st Class, which was of course supposed to be awarded only for combat. (Though I know they made an exception for test pilots).
von Loringen,

Can you post a copy of the picture? And I assume it's the WOMEN you're talking about just having been awarded the EKI (or was it the the KM officer?) Are you sure it's the Iron Cross FIRST class they had just been awarded?

The Eisernes Kreuz series was a combat decoration, but could be given for leadership in addition to personal bravery.

39 females were awarded the EKII. Two women were awarded the EKI---Hanna Reitsch and one other (a DRK woman).

~FV

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Marcus
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#9

Post by Marcus » 01 Jun 2005, 21:09

The two women awarded the EKI were Else Grossmann and Hanna Reitsch. A list of the women who are known to have won the EKII can be seen at http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=1706

DRK nurse Ilse Schulz wearing the Iron Cross and Afrika Korps cufftitle flanked by two Knight's Cross holders
Image

/Marcus

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Bubbles
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#10

Post by Bubbles » 02 Jun 2005, 06:15

Gothard wrote:
von Loringen wrote:Interesting. Any story with the photo? Do you happen to remember the aything about the website?
I believe the photo is on the feldgrau site and there was a short explanation. it was in the casualty section - death photos and its pretty graphic, the girl was pretty and looked half starved.
Feldgrau has a casualty section? Can you provide a link please Gothard... I searched all over the site.

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Vikki
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#11

Post by Vikki » 03 Jun 2005, 08:12

Marcus,

Many thanks for the information, and especially for the list on the link!

~FV

Jörgen L
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#12

Post by Jörgen L » 03 Jun 2005, 09:38

I´ve seen two pictures of dead german women, dressed in army uniforms, who fought on the western front
One of them is especially grisly, she is dressed in a skirt, a army jacket and a helmet (if I remember correctly).
Next to her dead body is a unused Panzerfaust, I assume she might have been raped (her skirt etc was in disorder) and knife was inserted in her torso.

I saw the photos in the book Entering Germany: 1944-1949 by Tony Vaccaro.

Best regards
Jörgen L

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Vikki
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#13

Post by Vikki » 05 Jun 2005, 06:09

Jörgen L,

I think I know the picture. If this is the one, thanks for the citation. I've seen it a couple of times before, but have never seen the attribution for it.

WARNING before anyone opens the link below: It's a very graphic photo, and not one that everyone may be comfortable with.

http://members.lycos.nl/verzet4045/ill/ ... ay1945.jpg

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Vikki
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Re: Women in combat in the Wehrmacht.

#14

Post by Vikki » 05 Jun 2005, 10:30

von Loringen wrote: Also, I am aware of numerous instances of German women serving in male guise in the armed forces in the 1st World War. I would be very suprised if it did not also happen in the 2nd World War, but I have yet to find any evidence of it.
Although I’m not a WWI aficionado---and perhaps that’s why I’ve not heard accounts of German women serving in male guise in that period---I would be very surprised if it did happen in WWII. Given the physical examinations of personnel entering the military in the period---photos of lines of buck-naked German inductees come immediately to mind---I would wonder how it could be possible in WWII. WWII is not the American Civil War, where Victorian sensibilities precluded those kinds of examinations, and where there are a fair number of well-documented accounts of females serving as men.

Different pelvis and facial shapes and sizes of females to males, differing body fat percentages and distribution, etc. make it difficult for most adult women to “pass” as a man. And it doesn’t take a physical anthropologist to see these differences. Just ask any man (or woman). Added to that, a thorough physical examination at induction would just about rule out a German female masquerading as a male soldier in World War II.

As for German women “officially” taking part in active combat operations in the Wehrmacht, that role was specifically officially prohibited throughout most of the war, both by National Socialist ideology and by Wehrmacht regulations. The regulations which formalized their service early in the war (there were already approximately 140,000 women in the services by then) fixed their roles as Flugmeldedienst/Nachrichten/Stabs (Aircraft reporting/Communications/Staff) personnel. These were roles which were intended to use female labor safely behind the battle lines. Even in 1943, with the creation of the Flakwaffenhelferinnenkorps (mostly from RADwJ women), the regulations and intent were that these women would be employed in defense of the Reich, on searchlights and “listening” equipment, and not in offensive operations. As late as the fall of 1944, OKW orders, while recognizing them as “combatants”, limited their roles to communications and anti-aircraft “defense” ones.

The “defense” role brings up a more subtle question: should many of the Flakwaffenhelferinnen, who in 1944-45 were retrained and moved from searchlights and sound equipment to manning anti-aircraft guns, be considered as having been “in combat,” even though their positions (until the very end) were well behind battle lines? Of course they should. Particularly in a war of such in-depth air superiority as the Allies enjoyed over western Europe at the end, an incoming enemy strike on an anti-aircraft battery doesn’t discriminate between the sexes.

But ideology and regulations don’t mean that Helferinnen, even though they were originally assigned to rear-area Staff and Communications roles, weren’t eventually involved in “combat” situations; as the Reich constricted, “The Front” was everywhere. On the Western Front, for example, there are recorded accounts of Helferinnen being captured at Cherbourg, Bayeaux, and in the Falaise Pocket, etc. Normal? No. But for a few Helferinnen, “The Front” came to them.

~FV

Jörgen L
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#15

Post by Jörgen L » 05 Jun 2005, 13:08

Fraulein Valkyrie,

That´s the picture I was referring to.

Best regards
Jörgen L

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