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Rheinmetall-Soviet connection

Discussions on all aspects of the USSR, from the Russian Civil War till the end of the Great Patriotic War and the war against Japan.
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Rheinmetall-Soviet connection

Postby Sturm78 on 17 Jan 2013 12:17

Hi all,

I would start this thread to discuss the aid that the German company Rheinmettall lent to the Soviet authorities during the first half of the 30s to the development of different types of artillery.

In particular I would like to find some information about this gun:

Clearly this is a weapon with a strong German influence in its design. Maybe it is directly a Rheinmetall design or perhaps it is a Soviet design developed with the help of German technicians displaced to Russia

Image from http://russianarms.mybb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=224&p=3

See this interesting link: http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/t ... oviet+deal

Thanks in advance.
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Re: Rheinmetall-Soviet connection

Postby Grzesio on 17 Jan 2013 14:37

It is a 152 mm howitzer mod. 1931, also designated as NG (abbreviation of German Howitzer) - a Rheinmetall design sold to the USSR, a predecessor of the the 15 cm sFH 18.
Other Rheinmetall guns sold to the USSR included 20 mm (of the Solothurn ST-5 family), 37 mm (of the Solothurn origin) and 76 mm AA (7,5 cm Flak L/59 predecessor) guns, 152 mm mortar (similar to the 15 cm SIG 33), 37 mm AT gun (predecessor of the 3,7 cm Pak).
Basically only the 76 mm AA and 37 mm AT were built in greater numbers under license in the USSR, giving subsequently birth to their 85 mm AA and 45 mm AT Soviet derivatives. 20 mm and 37 mm AA guns proved to be too complicated for the Soviet industry and their production was dropped due to technical difficulties. The rest was built in, let's say, few dozens pieces, not more.
10,5 cm Flak guns were offered to the USSR around 1940, a couple was delivered for trials.
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Re: Rheinmetall-Soviet connection

Postby Sturm78 on 17 Jan 2013 23:15

Thank you for your reply, Grzesio.

Are you sure that the howitzer is M1931 NG? :? :?

I found this other image of this howitzer also labeled as a 152mm NG M1931 but it is a weapon completely different. :?

Image from http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forums/s ... hp?t=51608

According to this source were manufactured only 8 howitzers of this model

Regards Sturm78
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Re: Rheinmetall-Soviet connection

Postby Paidoskixos on 19 Jan 2013 23:52

The Butast office in Moscow did more than that. They assisted in the design of a new howitzer known as Lubok, reaching trials in 1932 and adopted in 1934 as the 122-mm howitzer model 1934. Only 8 units were made. It seems it had obvious german traits such as a horizontal breechblock. I have never seen one picture of it. Does anyone have a picture of the Lubok?
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Re: Rheinmetall-Soviet connection

Postby Sturm78 on 28 Jan 2013 19:30

Nobody?? :(

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Re: Rheinmetall-Soviet connection

Postby Art on 29 Jan 2013 19:14

Paidoskixos wrote:I have never seen one picture of it. Does anyone have a picture of the Lubok?

Image
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Re: Rheinmetall-Soviet connection

Postby Sturm78 on 29 Jan 2013 19:58

Thank you very much for sharing this image, Art. :D :D

In the 30s there were many prototypes of Russian artillery pieces that, for whatever reason, did not reach mass production series.
Always nice to learn a bit more about this matter.

As for my original question, What is the real 152mm M1931 NG howitzer?
My first picture in color from 17 Jan or the second, posted on 18 Jan? :? :?

Any new image about this howitzer will be wellcome.

Regards Sturm78
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Re: Rheinmetall-Soviet connection

Postby Art on 30 Jan 2013 20:05

The howitzer on the color photo is the 152-mm mod.1931. No doubt about that:
http://uploads.ru/S6HdL.jpg
Moreover it looks more like SFH 18 than the piece on the BW picture. So my guess is that the real NG howitzer is this one.
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Re: Rheinmetall-Soviet connection

Postby Sturm78 on 31 Jan 2013 14:44

Art wrote
The howitzer on the color photo is the 152-mm mod.1931. No doubt about that:
http://uploads.ru/S6HdL.jpg
Moreover it looks more like SFH 18 than the piece on the BW picture. So my guess is that the real NG howitzer is this one.


Then, if the 152mm M1931 NG howitzer is the artillery piece of the first photograph in color, Which is the piece of the BW photography posted on 18 Jan ? :? :?

Regards Sturm78

PD. Do you have any wartime image of the 152mm M1931?
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Re: Rheinmetall-Soviet connection

Postby Sturm78 on 22 Feb 2013 13:03

Hi all,

No wartime images of the 152mm M1931 NG howitzer?? :(

Well, here another image of a Soviet artillery piece with a clear german influence in his design: 122mm A-19 prototype of KB-2 design bureau

Sorry, I do not remember the exact source: Russian forum
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Re: Rheinmetall-Soviet connection

Postby CyirlSh on 20 Aug 2013 10:29

Sturm78 wrote:Thank you for your reply, Grzesio.

Are you sure that the howitzer is M1931 NG? :? :?

I found this other image of this howitzer also labeled as a 152mm NG M1931 but it is a weapon completely different. :?

Image from http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forums/s ... hp?t=51608

According to this source were manufactured only 8 howitzers of this model

Regards Sturm78


This is a 122-mm howitzer mod.1931

Image
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