Soviet Naval Battles

[lupodimare89]

Once again i break from the scheduled plans, because i've noticed that on U-boat.net has been wrote news about U-479.

As we know U-479 has been first a legendary "taran" sinking of Soviet submarine Lembit.

Modern evaluation said she was sunk on old soviet mines.

Interesting to know it's that (for what i've collected until now) she's probably one of the only 2 German subs lost by Soviet mines in the Gulf of Finland. (alongside with U-679, previously given to MO's d/c, and now if i remember well it's considered as victim of mines from MO's).

Uboat.net say this:
In the summer of 2013 the wreck of a type VIIC U-boat was discovered by the Estonian Maritime Administration in a depth of 95 meters. It shows damage from mining and was tentatively identified as U-479 by Axel Niestlé.

On the main table page for Baltic Sea they further give Sunk after 27 Nov 1944 in the Baltic Sea north-west of Odensholm, in position 59.20N, 23.10E, by a Soviet mine.

Here facebook page with photos.
https://www.facebook.com/badewanneteam/ ... 34/?type=1

If the location it's confirmed (59.20N, 23.10E) now can be more easy to establish the cause of the loss.

[lupodimare89]

It's a bit both disappointing and frustrating to keep seeing denials and detractions v.v

Morozov correctly notes how U-479 is more probably that was sunk on an own German mine: the field Nashorn, even if from 1942, is still younger and probably more intact compared to the soviet ones in 1941.

I hope to see some additions rather than detractions when i will move on exporing KTB and mines laid in Baltic Sea, however for now i will move on checking the remaining months of Arctic (as planned).

[lupodimare89]

I'm still finishing the last month for Arctic, but wanted to write some more words of the case of U-479.

I've worked on the good finnish site http://kotisivut.fonet.fi, and honestly the reply of Morozov puzzled me a littled (i wrote about my doubts): mainly becaouse Nashorn field is located roughly 100 km east to the point of the wreck found.

The area actually show (in line, from west to east) 4 different big fields:
German "Apolda", Soviet fields, Finnish fields, German "Corbetha"

Checking the data honestly i think that the Soviet fields are in the perfect position, being located just a bit northern to the point.

And if it was a not-soviet mine, it could have been at best a Finnish one: field F17 of Vesihiisi, or field Kuolemajärvi of Ruotsinsalmi and Riilahti.

However also this Finnish option is weaker compared to the soviet one, because the Finnish fields were located well north-east/ east of Osmussaari. While the Soviet ones were west of the island (closer to sinking point).

[lupodimare89]

Nothing to do...

Here the final reply from Morozov:

About 80 km, by my mind. This is not a big distance for a drifting mine. For example, quite a lot of soviet mines from Sebastopol's field drifting in the beginning of 1942 off Bosphoru's entrance.
The old minefields in Finnish gulf with shallow depth of mines almost all cleaned during ice period every year.

[lupodimare89]

Ok, here two months for Arctic.

March 1944
(PS. for who would ever check it, the site wrongly name it "June 1944", but it's actually March.)

4 March
“One good preserved Russian submarine mine was cut east of Kirkenes”
Who laid it? Can be useful?
I've started from some time to keep more track of this kind of reports, because they can (in some cases) the survival of part of fields that maybe are believed totally swept (i've a pair of interesting ones that we will see in Baltic)


10 March
On report made 11March, it say that at h.21.42 of 10 march motor torpedo boats attacked a convoy (Petsamo to Kirkenes).
No effect.
Raid repulsed by R-boats.


On the morning of 21 March were found "3 well conserved Russian mines" off the port entrance of Vadso.
Believed to be laid by "PT-boats" (i guess MO instead) on 19 March. The mines are said to be left drifting, not anchored.
AC-6476 blocked for navigation.
On 23 March a mine was recovered in Vardo, but it's said to be air-laid.
Finally another mine was swept on 27 March, this time again in Vadso. (so this make at least 4 mines removed from the field off Vadso).



25 March
" 50-70 Russians commando ambushed a convoy of Luftwaffe between Vardo and Vadso, h23.25 of 25 March"
Germans had 1 kia, 6 mia. "Then Russian retreated probably on PTboats"
Further report it say: On the evening of 25 March, one lorry-platoon of the Air Force was surprisingly attacked in the area of Vardo. 6 soldiers captured and taken off and one was killed in action.
On 27 march it say there were 50 attacking soldiers, landing executed by 3 soviet boats.

It's a pretty much interesting naval landing raid behind enemy lines in Norway. It's known some detail of this?
The number of attackers involved it's pretty large.


Sadly there is no KTB in english about April and May 1944, so we move directly on June


Report of day 15 June
Night of 14 June , convoy from Kirkenes to Petsamo: Fired by batteries from Petsamo and 20-30 aircrafts.
Minor damages on one steamers
Attacking planes chased away by fighters: 9 aircrafts claimed shot-down.
Shortly after, the convoy is attacked by MTBs: they are reported repulsed by battery “Sensenhauer”. 1 MTB claimed hit.
What's the soviet version of this?
I'ts interesting because involved 3 different arms (coastal artillery, aircraft, mtbs) but no real result.



17 June 1944
Cleared 3 Soviet mines "M-31 type". In good conditions.
In AC8484


19 June
Other 3 mines in the fairway near Eckroe.


20 June
Confirmation of sinking of UJ-1209 by Soviet submarine (S-104).
It say that 2 torpedoes hit the target.


28 June
Confirmed (without many details) sinking of merchant Nerissa by Soviet Mtb.
By typing mistake, it's said shen was "9992 GRT" (a "9" wrongly added).

[igorr]

4 March
“One good preserved Russian submarine mine was cut east of Kirkenes”
Who laid it? Can be useful?

In fact, mine was cut off 3.3.44. Germans say, that many ships go through this area previously so mine was alone and laid by aircraft. Indeed Il-4 from 9 MTAP drop one in night between 29.2 and 1.3 in aprox. area. I think this was mine we looking for.

10 March
On report made 11March, it say that at h.21.42 of 10 march motor torpedo boats attacked a convoy (Petsamo to Kirkenes).
No effect.
Raid repulsed by R-boats.

In fact TKA Nrs. 13 and 116 have to land recon troops, but failed because enemy actions.

On the morning of 21 March were found "3 well conserved Russian mines" off the port entrance of Vadso.
Believed to be laid by "PT-boats" (i guess MO instead) on 19 March. The mines are said to be left drifting, not anchored.
AC-6476 blocked for navigation.
On 23 March a mine was recovered in Vardo, but it's said to be air-laid.
Finally another mine was swept on 27 March, this time again in Vadso. (so this make at least 4 mines removed from the field off Vadso).

19.1.44 near cape Komagnes (to west/Vadso) MO Nrs. 112, 113 and 131 laid 6 mines.
21.1.44 near cape Komagnes (to east/Vardo) MO Nrs. 114, 115, 116 laid 5 mines and one explosive bouy.
29.1.44 near Ekkeroy 5 mines from MO Nrs. 112, 113 and 131.
+21.3.44 TKA Nrs. 209, 211, 214 laid near island Store Ekkeroy 6 mines.
Last one located in vishinity of Vadso.

25 March
" 50-70 Russians commando ambushed a convoy of Luftwaffe between Vardo and Vadso, h23.25 of 25 March"
Germans had 1 kia, 6 mia. "Then Russian retreated probably on PTboats"
Further report it say: On the evening of 25 March, one lorry-platoon of the Air Force was surprisingly attacked in the area of Vardo. 6 soldiers captured and taken off and one was killed in action.
On 27 march it say there were 50 attacking soldiers, landing executed by 3 soviet boats.
It's a pretty much interesting naval landing raid behind enemy lines in Norway. It's known some detail of this?
The number of attackers involved it's pretty large.

There was recon troop of SOR (North Defence District) landed from TKA Nrs. 13 and 216. Strenght - 36 man. 6 POW confirmed but it is said that 15 germans was killed! Soviet side has no casualties.

Report of day 15 June
Night of 14 June , convoy from Kirkenes to Petsamo: Fired by batteries from Petsamo and 20-30 aircrafts.
Minor damages on one steamers
Attacking planes chased away by fighters: 9 aircrafts claimed shot-down.
Shortly after, the convoy is attacked by MTBs: they are reported repulsed by battery “Sensenhauer”. 1 MTB claimed hit.
What's the soviet version of this?
I'ts interesting because involved 3 different arms (coastal artillery, aircraft, mtbs) but no real result.

Soviet side make error: they thinks convoy goes opposite direction (from Petsamo). Two 3-gun batteries fired on them, claimed to sunk one "SKA". Enemy conterbattery fire caused one gun damage, 4 KIA, 5 WIA. To attack this convoy was sent2 waves of planes. First, 6 Il-2, then 8 P-40. They didn't claim any hits. And last, TKA Nrs. 237, 239, 240, 241 was out from Pummanki but can't find enemy (no surprise). One TKA was damaged by shore guns.

[lupodimare89]

There was recon troop of SOR (North Defence District) landed from TKA Nrs. 13 and 216. Strenght - 36 man. 6 POW confirmed but it is said that 15 germans was killed! Soviet side has no casualties.

Could not find more (it's already a big thing that the KTB talk more than one time of the event).
Maybe the KTB has mistake or not include all the losses (maybe Norwegian police into the convoy too?)
Or maybe there was really just one KIA,
However the prisoners make this raid quite successfull (intelligence gathered etc...)

At the moment i remember only few (2 or 3) earlier occasions with some police action to capture Norwegian agents (including females) in the areas, and one time (can't remember the date) it was found some radio, codes etc..
But not other actions that included ambushes and capture of Pows in Arctic.

[igorr]

Of course soviet recon troops did'nt know how many enemy they killed. I think "15" was taken just from ceiling. Attacked was only first car in 16-car strong colonne with 43 man. Rest even didn't defence themselves, just flee. Very possible that 7 man - all from first car.

[lupodimare89]

Hello again, here some material mainly for August 1944.

15 July 1944 (i've no english KTB of July 1944)
A little detail of the MTB attack against the convoy was here: http://www.warsailors.com/homefleet/shipsh2.html
Do you think that HUGIN have to be considered Norwegian? or was rather requisitioned by Germans yet still officially Norwegian?
However there also say that she had a cargo of Lumber.
There are soviet details if the cargo was damaged/destroyed or survived intact?


Now, coming to August.

At 21.04 of 1 august: 21st Minesweeper flottilla had a “contact vs 2 PT-boats."
110 miles south of "Bardoe."
But also said that two MTBs were shelled by coastal artillery in Kiberg at 18.20 of day 31 July.
I guess they could have been the same boats.
What happened in the soviet account?
There was some gunfight?



16 August.
A report of the sinking due mine of motor tanker BRINKUM. But place it's said "Lepsoe Channel". I guess it was "Lepso Rov" at Alesund, in south norway. Or there was another channel in north with similar name?


17 August.
An interesting soviet air raid in Kirkenes that appears to be a big one.
150 aircrafts reported. in waves attacks at 10.00 of 17 august.
Germans admit loss of merchants SEBU (1894 grt) and P.BORNHOFEN (1345 grt). Also "bensine quay hit by bombs".
However germans claim up 35 aircrafts shot down (6 by AAA).


Some details of the convoy battle on 19 August
It's interesting that Germans at first say that V-6112 was sunk by MTBs (while we know it was submarine M-201).
Howere this is later revised and said it was mine or torpedo.
Sinking of V-6102 and COLMAR are said at first by MTBs, later use (probably typing mistake) the term "planes" instead MTBs, claiming 2 destroyed and probably one more.
Finally correct itself and claim 3 MTBs sunk and 2 other destroyed (we know that only one was lost).

It's interesting that however list that R-310 from the same convoy suffered a direct hit probably by coastal artillery and needed to be towed to Kirkenes (it's said shortly after the MTB attack)
This is confirmed in your data?



On 24 August confirmation of damage on DESSAU by submarine S-15 with torpedo hit.
However i read in the KTB that has "5938 grt" instead "5933 grt" (that was from the Morozov's list).
Where is the mistake?

[lupodimare89]

Back from holidays ^^
Igor are you still away?

[igorr]

Back from holidays ^^
Igor are you still away?

I leave my home day before you post new questions. Just returned.

15 July 1944 (i've no english KTB of July 1944)
A little detail of the MTB attack against the convoy was here: http://www.warsailors.com/homefleet/shipsh2.html
Do you think that HUGIN have to be considered Norwegian? or was rather requisitioned by Germans yet still officially Norwegian?
However there also say that she had a cargo of Lumber.
There are soviet details if the cargo was damaged/destroyed or survived intact?

I don't know how exactly germans used norwegian ships - requisioned or frachted them - but HUGIN carried load for german Wermacht and has german soldiers on board. I think them try to repulse soviet TKA. As no data from soviet side awailable for HUGIN's boarding (at least for me), we can suppose that boarding was made by TKA Nr. 239 which was sunk itself later. Cargo was destroyed i think, because HUGIN burned some hours.

At 21.04 of 1 august: 21st Minesweeper flottilla had a “contact vs 2 PT-boats."
110 miles south of "Bardoe."
But also said that two MTBs were shelled by coastal artillery in Kiberg at 18.20 of day 31 July.
I guess they could have been the same boats.
What happened in the soviet account?
There was some gunfight?

Different groups. 31 July TKA Nr. 202 and 206 recorded shelling by german shore battery in 20.14msc. 4 salvoes, 3 gun in salvo, no damage. German side say about 9 shots.
TKA Nr. 206 and 204 sailed from Pummanki in middle of 1.08 and make ambush near Vardoe. Alas, there was no any kind of recco from soviet side. Battery Kiberg spotted TKA and 8 ships of 21 R-Fl out for S-bootsjagd. But this time soviet spotters see germans ships in sea and TKA received order to retreat. They was intercepted by R.308/304/305/310. There was skirmish after TKA 206 slowed due motor failure, but after motor was fixed, TKA made off and was saved by fire from two soviet shore battery from Fisher peninsula. No damages on either side.

16 August.
A report of the sinking due mine of motor tanker BRINKUM. But place it's said "Lepsoe Channel". I guess it was "Lepso Rov" at Alesund, in south norway. Or there was another channel in north with similar name?

This is Andalsness, west Norway.

17 August.
An interesting soviet air raid in Kirkenes that appears to be a big one.
150 aircrafts reported. in waves attacks at 10.00 of 17 august.

Interesteng that in reality there was exactly 150 planes!

Germans admit loss of merchants SEBU (1894 grt) and P.BORNHOFEN (1345 grt). Also "bensine quay hit by bombs".
However germans claim up 35 aircrafts shot down (6 by AAA).

SEBU was set on beach and salvaged very soon. Quay was destroyed for long of 50 m. 35 claims was only from Jagdwaffe, + 6 from shore AAA and 3 from ship's AAA. In reality losses were 9 planes.

It's interesting that however list that R-310 from the same convoy suffered a direct hit probably by coastal artillery and needed to be towed to Kirkenes (it's said shortly after the MTB attack)
This is confirmed in your data?

No, this was another convoy (from Liinahamari). This was not direct hit but very near miss. Shell exploded in water beneath ship's board. TKA didn't attacked this convoy.

On 24 August confirmation of damage on DESSAU by submarine S-15 with torpedo hit.
However i read in the KTB that has "5938 grt" instead "5933 grt" (that was from the Morozov's list).
Where is the mistake?

Just typo i think. Look in Lloyd register - DESSAU described as 5933 grt.

[lupodimare89]

Welcome back! and thanks for the new replies.
Tomorrow i write the data for September.

Meanwhile, i've made some checking back of old pages in search of mistakes or unclear things or typos mistakes, there are few (just about the names)


Most important one: for the battle with sinking of patrol ship Tuman, you wrote:

TUMAN sunk 10.8.41. ECKOLD was damaged by air bomb fell 20 m from her side. Machine stopped, then back in action but DD really was forced to go to repair in Vaterland.

So it was Z-16 damaged? I've read almost everywhere it was Z-4 Richard Beitzen.


For the battle with MTBs on 15 July 1944, the motorboat was "STOREGGA" or "STORREGA" ? (you wrote the latter, in the reply, while Morozov had wrote the first)

[lupodimare89]

Here the data for september.


5 September.
i think it's 100% sure that "heavy artillery from Petsamo" was job of ground based artillery and not ship.
The attack resulted in harbor defense boat MT-05 "damaged and grounded", not said if and when recovered.

On an identical event, on 9 September, a "cutter" is said to have been sunk.

6 September
R-304 sank east of "Ekeroe" (i guess it's Ekkeroy) after striking a mine.
Who could have laid the mine?
There is not much guessing about possibility of friendly german mines, instead it say that area AC8482/AC8485 was closed "in account of possible danger from mines"
It was the work of some MO-4 minelaying action?


14 September
Not much to add on attack on M-252. It only say that repulsed 6 or 8 MTBs

15 September
Some details about the loss of TK-13.
Germans say they were attacked by only 4 MTBs (they were 6) but there were also 15 planes.
POWs are said to be 11, rather than 9.

Interesting details surface from the interrogation of crew.
Germans get knowledge that ARCHANGELSK is now soviet-manned.
However it's said that cruiser MURMANSK was an ex-Italian cruiser.
It's also said that there are 6 American submarines in Polyarnoe, with Soviet crewmembers training on them.

The second and third informations, wrong, are still interesting..


23 September
Details from U-315 attempt to attack the battleship Archangelsk.
In detail, the damages due anti-subs nets include: front periscope bent, one propeller damaged
Submarine touched ground, and was forced to return.
It's also believed that after this the Soviets recognized (due missing pieces of nets) the attempted operation and moved away the battleship.


Some details of 25 September battle
The attack is described as a combined one of 25 planes + unclear number of MTBs
Apart sinking of V-6101, V-6105 "beached", F-152 "run aground",
V-6110 is described as being "out of control" and needed to be towed in port.
Damage on R-309 is said to be heavy (with casualties). Other 2 R-boats were slightly damaged, it was present also the tug Ostland.
On 27 September it was evaluated that during the battle one Soviet MTB was sunk (possibly claim by ground artillery) and 4 planes shot down (we know that no MTb was lost)

[igorr]

So it was Z-16 damaged? I've read almost everywhere it was Z-4 Richard Beitzen.

RB was attacked at 05.57 by 3 planes, damages not reported. In 06.30 RB and FE was detached to Narvik for machine repair. In 06.36 they was attacked by alone plane which bombed FE and caused damages. Bombs fell 80 and 50 m from starboard, 20 m from port.

For the battle with MTBs on 15 July 1944, the motorboat was "STOREGGA" or "STORREGA" ? (you wrote the latter, in the reply, while Morozov had wrote the first)

I don't know exact name. It taken from german docs and in different docs one name may be spelled in different way. Germans somethimes misspelled norwegian names very hard.

[igorr]

5 September.
i think it's 100% sure that "heavy artillery from Petsamo" was job of ground based artillery and not ship.
The attack resulted in harbor defense boat MT-05 "damaged and grounded", not said if and when recovered.

It was NT.05, not MT. Same time later (in september) refloated andreturned to war.

On an identical event, on 9 September, a "cutter" is said to have been sunk.

In reality this happen on 07.09. Cutter has name HAMBURG - i think this was self-propelled barge B.48.P, but no have evidence. She was refloated and scuttled 15.10.

6 September
R-304 sank east of "Ekeroe" (i guess it's Ekkeroy) after striking a mine.

Who could have laid the mine?
Mines was laid by TKA Nrs 172, 192, 213, 214.