Desertions from the Red Army during WWII

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Glebsky
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Desertions from the Red Army during WWII

#1

Post by Glebsky » 05 Nov 2014, 06:56

Does anybody know some good (military?) literature that covers desertions from the Red Army throughout World War II?

It would be also interesting to find out about the national aspect of it and its connection to Stalin's order 270 (Aug, 1941).

ML59
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Re: Desertions from the Red Army during WWII

#2

Post by ML59 » 05 Nov 2014, 08:49

I don't know about any dedicated essay on that. I just got some dry figures in Krivosheev's book about Russia/Soviet casualties in XX Century, he reports (out of memory, let me check the text later) about 200.000 men missing in the interior of Soviet Union all along GPW. This figure can be be compared against the 150.000 allied servicemen that deserted or simply disappeared in North Africa and Europe from 1941 to 1945.


Max Payload
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Re: Desertions from the Red Army during WWII

#3

Post by Max Payload » 26 Nov 2014, 13:50

This issue is discussed to a degree in Geoffrey Jukes' book 'Stalingrad to Kursk'. According to Jukes desertion rates were highest among the non-Russian troops and declined rapidly after 1942.
I no longer have this book so I'm afraid I can't point you to Jukes' reference source. The book contained a lot of tabulated data, but I can't recall to what level of detail he analysed desertion rates.
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Mr.No one
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Re: Desertions from the Red Army during WWII

#4

Post by Mr.No one » 01 Dec 2014, 08:27

Hey

I could check through John Ellis' recent Stalingrad book, which have got a chapter on the subject...
Believe in truth!

ML59
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Re: Desertions from the Red Army during WWII

#5

Post by ML59 » 01 Dec 2014, 21:42

The matter is analyzed in "Why Stalin's soldiers fought", where all the major factors that kept the RKKA fighting and the difficulties it had to overcome to stay in the field are analyzed. I recommend reading it.

Glebsky
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Re: Desertions from the Red Army during WWII

#6

Post by Glebsky » 02 Dec 2014, 09:44

Many thanks guys. These references are very helpful! Reese's book seems to be exactly what I am interested in. Many books and articles highlight the ideological zeal or vengeful fanaticism of the Red Army soldiers fighting against the Nazi invaders. Yet I have not found anything that would integrate into the argument also the radical disciplinary mechanisms employed, as well as the mass desertions (even in 1943) and many other brutal ways the Soviet power used to push their soldiers into battle. Of course, many books mention the latter, but I remain puzzled by how these poles operated together and what does it actually say about the general legitimacy of the Soviet regime with regards to the Russian and non-Russian soldiers (the latter include, of course, also the men mobilized in the newly annexed Western borderlands, who owed no loyalty to Stalin or Moscow).

ML59
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Re: Desertions from the Red Army during WWII

#7

Post by ML59 » 04 Dec 2014, 23:47

Mass desertion has been a major issues in all mass armies of XX century and even before that. What is important to differentiate is "desertion in front of the enemy", "defection to the enemy" or simply "not reporting for duty". In the western armies, during WW2, not reporting for duty was generally accounted for as "absent without permission". A large proportion of soldiers "absent without permission" re-joined their units within a couple of weeks and were usually sent into punishment but not charged of desertion. Nevertheless, there were more than 150.000 allied soldiers in the ETO that simply disappeared and never reported back to their units, officially becoming deserters, most hiding themselves somewhere waiting the end of the war, others joining or organizing criminal gangs. Some deserters remained in Europe even after the end of the war becoming real gangsters, in France, in Italy, in Belgium , for example. When amnesty was announced by American or British government, most of them re-surfaced and traveled back to their home country.
In Soviet Union treatment was a "bit" harsher: desertion was a major crime punishable by death in case of "desertion in front of the enemy" or "defection to the enemy". In peacetime only Supreme Military Council in Moscow could authorize the execution of any soldier sentenced to death. At the outbreak of the war, this responsibility was at first lowered to Front level, then to Army or Corps level. But it was only with the issue of Order n° 270 on August 1941, promising the harshest punishment to deserters, cowards, panic mongers, traitors and their families that the situation really got out of hand. It quickly became apparent that the freedom of action given to military councils at lower level drastically increased the number of executions and therefore Stalin, never soft in requesting or issuing the harshest punishment, issued to all officers from Colonels and above Order N° 391, that blamed the ineptitude of the military leaders in motivating their soldiers to prevent them to flee or desert the battlefield and stating that "repression" (death sentence) is the most extreme punishment and should be used only in a very specific number of cases, namely open rebellion or disobedience in the battlefield in front of the enemy or when subordinates openly tried to subvert superior's orders. This new order, that correctly identified harsh and unjust punishment as major factor of morale decline and indiscipline, contributed to greatly reduce the number of executions.
However, Order N° 227 of July 1942, the famous "not one step backwards" order, created the conditions for new firmness and new use of "repression". Nevertheless, examining the records of the whole RKKA from 1st August up to 15th October, 1942, the period of the great German offensive in the Volga region and the Caucasus and of the great Soviet retreats, blocking detachments all along the fronts detained 140.755 soldiers who absented themselves without permission. Only 3% (3.980) of the total were arrested; out of them, 1.189 soldiers were shot, the rest sent to serve in shtrafibat (penal battalions). While this figures could seem very big to western eyes, it was not compared to the size of the Soviet Army and the usual harshness of Soviet penal and military code. It is evident from statistic that lethality of the blocking detachments was extremely low, a low 0,84% of the total being detained was actually executed. Compared to the appalling numbers of the repressions during the Great Purges of 1937-38 (about 650.000 persons shot), those are very low figures indeed.

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Re: Desertions from the Red Army during WWII

#8

Post by mars » 07 Dec 2014, 02:14

ML59 wrote: However, Order N° 227 of July 1942, the famous "not one step backwards" order, created the conditions for new firmness and new use of "repression". Nevertheless, examining the records of the whole RKKA from 1st August up to 15th October, 1942, the period of the great German offensive in the Volga region and the Caucasus and of the great Soviet retreats, blocking detachments all along the fronts detained 140.755 soldiers who absented themselves without permission. Only 3% (3.980) of the total were arrested; out of them, 1.189 soldiers were shot, the rest sent to serve in shtrafibat (penal battalions). While this figures could seem very big to western eyes, it was not compared to the size of the Soviet Army and the usual harshness of Soviet penal and military code. It is evident from statistic that lethality of the blocking detachments was extremely low, a low 0,84% of the total being detained was actually executed. Compared to the appalling numbers of the repressions during the Great Purges of 1937-38 (about 650.000 persons shot), those are very low figures indeed.
I recall majority of these red army soldiers were sent back to their units, I do not believe the number of Soviet Penal battalions/companies were large enough to absorb more than 100 thousands men

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Re: Desertions from the Red Army during WWII

#9

Post by ML59 » 07 Dec 2014, 11:17

Total number of Soviet personnel that went through a penal unit was, from 1942 to 1945, 427.910 men. The average strength of penal companies and battalions was probably lower than 100.000 all along the war years, the turnover being very high due to disproportionate casualties rates and expiration of punishment terms (usually three or six months). Shtrafniki were rehabilitated if wounded in action or awarded a decoration for gallant behavior.

Art
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Re: Desertions from the Red Army during WWII

#10

Post by Art » 07 Dec 2014, 14:36

mars wrote: I recall majority of these red army soldiers were sent back to their units
Yep, there was a translation of the same document on this forum:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=31325
Also not that straggling or unauthorized retreat and desertion are different things technically.

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Re: Desertions from the Red Army during WWII

#11

Post by ML59 » 07 Dec 2014, 22:51

Thank you Art, very interesting document. So, it seems obvious from the available records that Mr Beevor's claim of 13.500 soviet soldiers shot in Stalingrad alone is pure fantasy.

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Re: Desertions from the Red Army during WWII

#12

Post by Art » 19 Dec 2014, 14:18

Some stuff relating to the Winter War:
During the period of 9 Army's prosecutor office operations (1 December 1939 to 1 April 1940) 53% of all cases were forwarded to the tribunal with indictments, 5% were redirected and 42% closed.... Out of 360 cases forwarded to the tribunal 358 men were sentenced. The most frequent crimes in the 47 Rifle Corps during the entire period (total 275 cases) were desertions and runaways from the battlefield (60 cases), self-inflicted wounds (79) and counterrevolutionary crimes (34). In average a half of cases on the first two items ended with death sentences. For example, in the 44 Rifle Division from 11 to 29 January 18 court hearings were held which sentenced to death penalty the divisional command (3 men), a military technician 2nd grade and 8 privates. To 10 years in custody - 7 privates and 1 platoon commander. All sentenced to jail terms were given an opportunity to redeem their guilt in battle. Moreover a large part of deserters were sent directly to their units without court hearings. Deserters submitted reports with a promise to redeem the guilt in battle and after that were returned to their units. In the 44 Rifle Division 93 men returned to ranks that way.
http://slon-76.livejournal.com/97558.html
One must pay attention that there was a legal opportunity to postpone execution of court sentences and send culprits to the battle lines long before the known order on organization of penal units. Most people seem to be unaware of this from what I can see.

antfreire
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Re: Desertions from the Red Army during WWII

#13

Post by antfreire » 16 Feb 2015, 16:29

So are we going to believe the figures given by a Regime that denied the slaughter of Katyn, the existence of Gulags, the rape of hundreds of thouzands of women in the conquered countries of Europe, and even the help provided to the Red Army through the Lend Lease? I take those numbers provided by Russian historians with a tone of salt.

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Re: Desertions from the Red Army during WWII

#14

Post by Art » 16 Feb 2015, 19:53

antfreire wrote: slaughter of Katyn, the existence of Gulags, the help provided to the Red Army through the Lend Lease?
Curiously enough all that is amply reflected in documents produced by the "regime". So if you want to say that any Soviet documents are false then your own argument beats you. Actually there are widely established procedures of critique of historical sources that generally universal and applicable to any country of origins. There is no question that Soviet sources are somehow special in this respect.
The word "Gulag" doesn't have a plural form, there was only one Gulag.

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Re: Desertions from the Red Army during WWII

#15

Post by ML59 » 17 Feb 2015, 23:08

What most people fail to understand is that the Soviet regime was extremely bureaucratic and millions of documents were produced for internal purposes only, never intended to be published. It's an unbelievable stroke of luck for all historians that so many genuine documents survived and were, partially, made available to researchers post-1991. This is not true for many so called democratic country, where sensitive documents are deeply buried in archives that were not open, by law, to anybody and, most probably, will never be.
So, please, try to understand the difference between propaganda and archival truth and you'll find out that there is much more to learn from soviet archives and reports than from fancy "history" books.

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