Soviet 61st and 111st Tank divisions' equipment 1945

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Kelvin
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Soviet 61st and 111st Tank divisions' equipment 1945

#1

Post by Kelvin » 23 Jul 2016, 22:57

Hi, I am looking for AFV strength of 61st and 111st Tank Divisions on the eve of Northeastern China campaign in August 1945, anyone could help on that ? Thank

Kelvin
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Re: Soviet 61st and 111st Tank divisions' equipment 1945

#2

Post by Kelvin » 25 Jul 2016, 11:44

Hi, I found out 61st Tank division had 164 tanks in August 1945, but want to know what types they had, T-34-85 or just kept their old tanks like T-26 or BT.


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Re: Soviet 61st and 111st Tank divisions' equipment 1945

#3

Post by Art » 26 Jul 2016, 20:30

From a 111 TD's report (5 August 1945):
136 T-34, 21 BT-7, 17 BA-10 and BA-20 armored cars, 10 M-17 MGMC
https://pamyat-naroda.ru/dou/?docID=152821588
From a 61 TD's war dairy in early August:
139 T-34, 22 BT-7, 10 BA-10, 11 BA-20, 13 SU-76, 10 M-17
https://pamyat-naroda.ru/jbd/130857954/
Not sure if it means totals or operational machines only.

Kelvin
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Re: Soviet 61st and 111st Tank divisions' equipment 1945

#4

Post by Kelvin » 27 Jul 2016, 19:17

Art wrote:From a 111 TD's report (5 August 1945):
136 T-34, 21 BT-7, 17 BA-10 and BA-20 armored cars, 10 M-17 MGMC
https://pamyat-naroda.ru/dou/?docID=152821588
From a 61 TD's war dairy in early August:
139 T-34, 22 BT-7, 10 BA-10, 11 BA-20, 13 SU-76, 10 M-17
https://pamyat-naroda.ru/jbd/130857954/
Not sure if it means totals or operational machines only.
Hi, Art, thank a lot for your information, very helpful. Those two divisons not too bad as they had T-34. Do you know if 36th and 57th Motorized Rifle divisions had T-34 or just BT cavalry tanks ? Thank

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Re: Soviet 61st and 111st Tank divisions' equipment 1945

#5

Post by Paul_Atreides » 29 Jul 2016, 04:00

These divisions had only separated SP battalions (13 SU-76s each).

P.S. Why you call BT tanks as "cavalry"?
There is no waste, there are reserves (Slogan of German Army in World Wars)

Kelvin
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Re: Soviet 61st and 111st Tank divisions' equipment 1945

#6

Post by Kelvin » 29 Jul 2016, 08:23

Hi, Paul, thank for your data. I suppose they should have some older T-26 and BT-7 tanks left on hand.

And many website called BT series tank as cavarly tank because its extremely faster than other tanks at this moment and function like old cavarly, like attack in the rear or reconnaissance.

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Re: Soviet 61st and 111st Tank divisions' equipment 1945

#7

Post by Paul_Atreides » 29 Jul 2016, 10:05

Kelvin wrote:And many website called BT series tank as cavarly tank because its... function like old cavarly, like attack in the rear or reconnaissance.
What interesting fables :D
There is no waste, there are reserves (Slogan of German Army in World Wars)

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Re: Soviet 61st and 111st Tank divisions' equipment 1945

#8

Post by Kelvin » 29 Jul 2016, 10:14

Hi, Paul, I see Glantz book on 36 and 57 Motorized divison say they had 64 older tanks. T- 26 ?

And 6th Guards Tank Army all three units were stripped of their light and heavy SU Regiments, they only kept medium SU Regiments like SU-100 in 5th Guards Tank Corps and 9th Guards Mechanized Corps and SU-85 in 7th Mechanized Corps. I think Heavy SU regiment equipped with ISU-152 was suitable for destroying Japanese heavily fortified works in Manchuria.On the other hand, Japanese armor was weak, they neither had heavier gun like 76mm or 85mm on tanks nor did they had heavier armor to resist Soviet 85mm AP. Depolyment of SU-100 was really overkill.

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Re: Soviet 61st and 111st Tank divisions' equipment 1945

#9

Post by Art » 29 Jul 2016, 17:58

Paul_Atreides wrote:These divisions had only separated SP battalions (13 SU-76s each).
From the plan of operations prepared by the 6 Guards Tank Army (July 1945):
Motorized rifle divisions attached to the army have the following strength: 36 MRD -9574 men, 57 MRD - 10332.
Divisions are equipped with obsolete T-26 tanks....One of four tank battalions attached to the army is equally obsolete and equipped with BT-5 tanks.
Page 3 in the doc:
https://pamyat-naroda.ru/dou/?docID=133024214
I don't understand were these T-26 were from. Maybe recon bats?

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Re: Soviet 61st and 111st Tank divisions' equipment 1945

#10

Post by Paul_Atreides » 29 Jul 2016, 19:27

There were only 22 T-26 in the 6th tank army on 8th august. 11 from them to be written off.
There is no waste, there are reserves (Slogan of German Army in World Wars)

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Re: Soviet 61st and 111st Tank divisions' equipment 1945

#11

Post by Kelvin » 29 Jul 2016, 21:23

Art wrote:
Paul_Atreides wrote:These divisions had only separated SP battalions (13 SU-76s each).
From the plan of operations prepared by the 6 Guards Tank Army (July 1945):
Motorized rifle divisions attached to the army have the following strength: 36 MRD -9574 men, 57 MRD - 10332.
Divisions are equipped with obsolete T-26 tanks....One of four tank battalions attached to the army is equally obsolete and equipped with BT-5 tanks.
Page 3 in the doc:
https://pamyat-naroda.ru/dou/?docID=133024214
I don't understand were these T-26 were from. Maybe recon bats?
Hello, Art, thank for your detailed information. So to combine all data from you and Paul, 36 and 57 Motorized Divisions had mixed AFV : T-26, BT-5 and SU-76. According to Glantz, total 64 AFV each division.

And 6th Guards Tank Army had two separate units : 208th and 231st SU Brigades, I would like to ask both of you if what AFV they had, mixed SU or exclusive one type of vehicle, like SU-100 ? Thank

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Re: Soviet 61st and 111st Tank divisions' equipment 1945

#12

Post by Art » 30 Jul 2016, 08:35

The quote above says that BT-5 were in one separate tank battalions. The Glantz's info (64 tanks) quite possibly includes these attached separate battalions. The after-action report from 36 MRD indicates that there were two BT battalions attached to the division at some stage.

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Re: Soviet 61st and 111st Tank divisions' equipment 1945

#13

Post by Art » 30 Jul 2016, 17:17

Kelvin wrote: And 6th Guards Tank Army had two separate units : 208th and 231st SU Brigades, I would like to ask both of you if what AFV they had, mixed SU or exclusive one type of vehicle, like SU-100 ? Thank
Each brigade had 63 SU-100. In addition there was one SU-100 regiment in 5 GTC, 9 GMC and 7 MC, total 65 vehicles. Page 14 here:
https://pamyat-naroda.ru/dou/?docID=114196945
Curiously this report doesn't list any SUs in both motorized divisions.

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Re: Soviet 61st and 111st Tank divisions' equipment 1945

#14

Post by Paul_Atreides » 31 Jul 2016, 20:02

Two pictures
ZabF_BTiMV_080845.jpg
ZabF_BTiMV_080845.jpg (93.49 KiB) Viewed 949 times
IMAGE57805.jpg
There is no waste, there are reserves (Slogan of German Army in World Wars)

Kelvin
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Posts: 3117
Joined: 06 Apr 2007, 15:49

Re: Soviet 61st and 111st Tank divisions' equipment 1945

#15

Post by Kelvin » 01 Aug 2016, 18:06

Art wrote:
Kelvin wrote: And 6th Guards Tank Army had two separate units : 208th and 231st SU Brigades, I would like to ask both of you if what AFV they had, mixed SU or exclusive one type of vehicle, like SU-100 ? Thank
Each brigade had 63 SU-100. In addition there was one SU-100 regiment in 5 GTC, 9 GMC and 7 MC, total 65 vehicles. Page 14 here:
https://pamyat-naroda.ru/dou/?docID=114196945
Curiously this report doesn't list any SUs in both motorized divisions.
Hi, Art, thank so much for your information.

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