Mobile Field 'Mortars'

[Mike Blake]

I am at a loss where to post this one, but as Russia had these pieces I will start here - Mods please move to where you belive is correct.

What is the difference, technically, between a mortar and a howitzer? Can both be breechloading? I ask because the high trajectory field guns developed by Englegardt in Russia are described as mortars but seem to be more like howitzers (from the little I know) - they are breechloading, on wheeled carriages, and used to lob shells?

Could it be a case of the Russian word they use being literally 'mortar' when translated, but in military terms the guns are really howitzers?

A picture of the guns is at http://svsm.org/gallery/152mm-6in-m1883.

Thanks for any help anyone can give.

[RCW Mark]

Could it be a case of the Russian word they use being literally 'mortar' when translated, but in military terms the guns are really howitzers?

This is a frequent problem. The word in question is Mortira, which does cover howitzers. There is also Gaubitsa (a straight transliteration).

You see the same problem with divizion often being confused with division.

[Mike Blake]

Ah -thanks, I suspected as much. That's helpful. And 'Gaubitsa' is straight translation of 'howitzer'? Do the Russians actually use it other than translating from English to Russian?

Yes, and divizion had me fooled for a while. It is a word best left untranslated IMHO, so it is not confused with the 'normal' meaning in English. Initially I was really stumped by a division of artillery which was less guns than a regiment!

Mike

[Art]

As I understand "mortar" is an artillery piece designed for firing at elevation angle greater than the angle corresponding to the maximal range (i.e. 40-45 degrees). Since modern howitzers are able to do that, there is no practical sense in division of artillery pieces by mortars and howizers now.
By the way in the Russian Army during the WWI mortar battalions were in fact equipped with 122-mm howizers."It can not be understood, it just must be remembered" (from an anecdote about a Russian language lesson in a Georgian school)

[Art]

And 'Gaubitsa' is straight translation of 'howitzer'?

Yes.

[Auseklis]

The russians just transliterated the german term 'Haubitze'.

[RCW Mark]

As I understand "mortar" is an artillery piece designed for firing at elevation angle greater than the angle corresponding to the maximal range (i.e. 40-45 degrees). Since modern howitzers are able to do that, there is no practical sense in division of artillery pieces by mortars and howizers now.

Presumably that is the Russian distinction, which is why the pieces share the word.

In English a "mortar" is not breach-loading and a "howitzer" is. In WWII there was a also a difference in portability -- howitzers were towed by prime movers/horses, while mortars were man-handled (most often, in fact, wheel-less). I think it wise to keep the practical difference in English and use the correct term. Just as I would never call a rocket artillery piece a "mortar" just because it could fire at elevations over 45°.

By the way in the Russian Army during the WWI mortar battalions were in fact equipped with 122-mm howizers."It can not be understood, it just must be remembered" (from an anecdote about a Russian language lesson in a Georgian school)

Surely mortira battalions were equipped with howitzers. They were never "mortar" battalions in the first place, and should always be translated as howitzer battalions (but inevitably frequently are not, causing much confusion).

[Oleg Grigoryev]

I might be wrong on this account but Russian minomet - verbatim mine-thrower - mortar in English did not use separte loading for ammo (50mm to 160mm) while the only Soviet gun (that I know of) during WW II that was classified as Mortira -Br-5 did use it. Additinally, minomet is a smooth bore weapon while Mortira used rifling just as any other canon.