I'm looking for table of organisation and equipment for Mobile Group Popov for the time of the battle for Kharkov during the winter of 1942-1943. How was it organised and what tanks, vehicles and guns did it have?
/Daniel
Mobile Group Popov - TO&E for Battle of Kharkov 1943
Re: Mobile Group Popov - TO&E for Battle of Kharkov 1943
Have you seen "From Don to the Dnieper" by D.Glantz, it contains a lot of info on the subject? In general the Popov's group was an ad hoc unit organized by the end of January 1943 and consisting of 4 tank corps: 4th Guards, 3th, 10th and 18th. It also have several rifle divisions and smaller artillery units attached, although due to its ad hoc nature it's impossible to trace its detailed OOB in standart sources on battle order. As far as I can from the Glantz's book at the start of the operation, that is about 30 January, each its tank corps operated in a bundle with a rifle division, namely 4th Guards Tank Corps with 38th Guards Rifle Division, 3rd Tank Corps - with 57 Guards Rifle Division, 10 Tank Corps - 52 Rifle Division, 18 Tank Corps - 41 Guards Rifle Division. However in the process of operation infantry was left behind, and the group was gathering at Kranoarmeyskoye after 11 February with tank units only. Also arrived in the process of operations - 9th Guards Tank Brigade (attached to 4th Guards Tank Corps about 10 February), 11th Tank Brigade - attached to the 10 Tank Corps, 5th and 7th Ski Brigade. There were also artillery units, but as I said, it's hard to find out which exactly. For the number of tanks Glantz gives the following data (operational tanks only!):
25.01 - 212 tanks;
30.01 - 180;
7.02 - 140;
16.02 - 145;
21.02 - 25;
22.02 - 50;
26.02 - 50;
It's possible to find some info on individual units, if it is of interest. I haven't encountered systematic data on number of men and weapons (except tanks), tank losses and replacements.
25.01 - 212 tanks;
30.01 - 180;
7.02 - 140;
16.02 - 145;
21.02 - 25;
22.02 - 50;
26.02 - 50;
It's possible to find some info on individual units, if it is of interest. I haven't encountered systematic data on number of men and weapons (except tanks), tank losses and replacements.
Re: Mobile Group Popov - TO&E for Battle of Kharkov 1943
Hi Art,
Thank you for the reply. I am going to order the book by Glantz right away. The type of tanks and armoured vehicles involved in the operation would be interesting to know so I hope the book can help me with that. Are there any other publications you can recommend? I am wondering if there are any Russian photo books/photo heavy books about the battle that might be useful?
/Daniel
Thank you for the reply. I am going to order the book by Glantz right away. The type of tanks and armoured vehicles involved in the operation would be interesting to know so I hope the book can help me with that. Are there any other publications you can recommend? I am wondering if there are any Russian photo books/photo heavy books about the battle that might be useful?
/Daniel
Re: Mobile Group Popov - TO&E for Battle of Kharkov 1943
The Glantz's book is in general good, though published a long ago and based on secondary sources only. As for types of tanks, there was some info, though scattered, I'll try to post it.
Re: Mobile Group Popov - TO&E for Battle of Kharkov 1943
Thanks! I appreciate it.
/Daniel
/Daniel
Re: Mobile Group Popov - TO&E for Battle of Kharkov 1943
Well, here is some information I've compiled. A comment on units disposition could probably useful. By the start of the operation the tank corps were deployed in the following order (from right to left):
3rd (50, 51, 103 Tank, 57 Motorized Rifle Brigade), 10th (178, 183, 186 Tank, 11 Motorized Rifle Brigade), 18th (110, 170, 181 Tank, 32 Motorized Rifle Brigade, 52 Motorcycle Battalion, 1 Armored Car Battalion). 4th Guards Tank Corps (12, 13, 14 Guards Tank, 3rd Guards Motorized Rifle Brigades) was in the second echelon at Starobelsk. The operations of the mobile group can be divided by two phases. In the first it crossed the Donets River in cooperation with infantry units of the 1st Guards Army, but then its advance stalled south of the river. On 10 February Vatutin tried to revive the operation hurling the group to the road center at Krasnoarmeyskoye through the gap west of Kramatorsk. However, because the group's units needed to be regrouped and because one tank corps (3rd) must be left at Kramatorsk for flank security, units arrived to Kranoarmayeskoye by portions, and when they finally gathered there, it was already late and they were gradually pushed north by Germans.
3rd Tank Corps according to the unit's history had 31 operational tanks at the start of operation. Reached Kramatorsk on 5 February with 23 tanks. Mid-February – 12 tanks, 12 armored cars, 18 armored personnel carriers. By the end of 21 February – 12 tanks. The corps remained at Kramatorsk till 27 February.
10th Tank Corps was transferred from the West Front (region of Mozhaisk) beginning from late December 1942. By that time it had 7 700 men, 177 tanks (25 KV, 66 T-34, 9 Mk-II, 35 T-70, 42 T-70), 540 wheeled vehicles. After detaining marched to Starobelsk, 183 Tank Brigade (40 tanks) participated in the battle for the city together with 4 Guards Tank Corps. Starobelsk was taken on 23 January. By the end of 26 January the main forces of the corps concentrated in Starobelsk with 41 tanks. Many tanks broke down during the march. By the start of the operation the corps had 101 operational tanks. Alternative data (Isaev): 22 T-34 and 12 light (T-60/70) in the 178 Tank Brigade, 19 T-34 in the 183 Tank Brigade, 1 KV, 6 light tank in the 186 Tank Brigade. Apparently there were also tanks in the corps HQ. Attached were 52 Rifle Division, 407 AT artillery regiment, 606 AA artillery regiment, 265 Guards Mortar Battalion (rocket launchers), 28 Sapper Battalion. By 11 February the corps was regrouped to the west and gathered north of Slavyansk, having 11 T-34, 7 light tanks in 183 Tank Brigade, 3 KV and 8 light tank in the 186 Tank Brigade, 13 T-34 in the 11 Tank Brigade (attached). 178 Tank Brigade without tank was left behind. On 12 February the march to Krasnoarmeyskoye began, which was delayed by German counterattacks on 12-13 February. As a result, the vanguard (183 Tank Brigade) reached Krasnoarmeuskiy Rudnik on 14 February and Dobroploye on 15, establishing contact with the 4 Guards Tank Corps at Krasnoarmeyskoye. The brigade was joined by 10 tanks, which previously broke down or lagged behind on a march. The main forces only on 14 February gathered at Sergeyevka, having 3 T-34 and 5 T-70 in the 11th Tank Brigade, and 2 KV and 6 T-70 - in 186th TBr plus 11th Motorized Rifle Brigade. On the morning of 16 February after handing over its positions to the 18th Tank Corps, the main forces joined the 183rd Tank Brigade. On 18 February Krasnoarmeyskoye was lost by the 4th GTC, the group commanded by the 183rd Tank Brigade CO colonel Andryuschenko was formed, comprising units of 183 TBr, 11 Motorized Rifle Brigade, 7 Ski Brigade, 9 and 12 Guards Tank Brigades, a battery of 407 AT artillery regiment. The group retook the center of Krasnoarmeyskoye. By the end of 19 February 19 operational tanks remained in the corps. Andryuschenko’s group at Krasnoarmeyskoye had 9 T-34 and 8 T-70 on the same day. On 21 February the corps had 4 T-34 and 7 T-70 in 183 Tank Brigade, 1 KV and 2 T-34 (from 4 Guards Tank Corps) in 186 Tank Brigade, 1 T-34 and 3 light tanks in 11 Tank Brigade, 2 T-34, 2 T-70, 1 T-60, 4 37-mm AA guns in the corps HQ. On 22 February defends Stepanovka with 4 T-34, 5 T-70, 1 T-60. On 23 February Stepanovka was encircled and the corps together with a group of the 18th Tank Corps (see below) retreats to Aleksandrovka in the morning of 24 February with 3 T-34 and 3 T-70. By the end of the day 2 T-34 and T-70 remain operational. In the night 24/25 February defensive positions are occupied at Barvenkovo, 9 T-34 and T-70 are handed over from the 4th Guards Corps. After 27 February the corps is withdrawn to Krasniy Liman for refitting. Andryuschenko’s group broke out from Krasnoarmeyskoye on the night of 22 February and reached Krasniy Liman with 2 500 men on 25 February.
18th Tank Corps – 7 T-34, 10 T-70, 10 76-mm guns on 15 February. On 21 February defends Dobropolye with 6 T-34. On 22 February a group of 181 Tank Brigade, 640 AA artillery regiment and 52 Motorcycle Battalion (6 T-34, 4 76-mm guns, 10 37-mm guns) defends Stepanovka. Another group consisting of 110 and 170 Tank Brigades (without tanks), 32 Motorcycle Brigade, 442 AT artillery regiment and a rocket launcher battalion (10 BA-64 armored cars, 13 guns, 20 mortars, 4 rocket launchers) is cut off short of Stepanovka and joined friendly forces only on 1 March,
4th Guards Tank Corps had 28 T-34 and 12 T-70 by the start of the operation, and less than 50% of authorized personnel and weapons. All tanks were gathered in the 14th Guards Tank Brigade, which is committed to action after 1 February. 12 and 13 GTBr remained at Novopskov, awaiting replacements. Apparently, they were not received because on 7 February the corps concentrated at Kramatorsk having 37 operational tanks (17 tanks were handed over from 14th to 12th GTBr). In addition 9th Guards Tank Brigade and 7 Ski Brigade were attached. On 10 February all these units left for Krasnoarmeyskoye, save 13th Tank Brigade which was left without tanks to guard communications. On 18 February the corps at Krasnoarmeyskoye had 17 operational tanks. On 20 February the 13th Guards Tank Brigade concentrated at Barvenkovo as a mobile group’s reserve were it received 32 new T-34. 24 February – the entire corps is gathered at Barvenkovo.
That is from the histories of 3, 10, 4 Guards Tank Corps, "Osvobozhdeniye Donbassa' by Yershov, "Bitva za Kharkov" by Isaev.
Regarding composition, Vatutin wrote in his report to Stavka of 20 January 1943, that the group was to consist of 3, 10 and 18 Tank Corps, three rifle divisions (unnamed),three AT artillery regiments, three AA artillery regiments and three rocket launcher regiments, and also three ski brigades (5,7 and 10) after arrival by railway. Apparently, the plan was to create three battle groups, each consisting of one of every type of unit, that can also be confirmed by the composition of the 10 Tank Corps group. In the same report it was said that the 4th Guards Tank Corps had no tanks, and there was no means to replenish it. It seems that some tanks were found after 20 January, but by start of February the units was still refitting in the second echelon.
3rd (50, 51, 103 Tank, 57 Motorized Rifle Brigade), 10th (178, 183, 186 Tank, 11 Motorized Rifle Brigade), 18th (110, 170, 181 Tank, 32 Motorized Rifle Brigade, 52 Motorcycle Battalion, 1 Armored Car Battalion). 4th Guards Tank Corps (12, 13, 14 Guards Tank, 3rd Guards Motorized Rifle Brigades) was in the second echelon at Starobelsk. The operations of the mobile group can be divided by two phases. In the first it crossed the Donets River in cooperation with infantry units of the 1st Guards Army, but then its advance stalled south of the river. On 10 February Vatutin tried to revive the operation hurling the group to the road center at Krasnoarmeyskoye through the gap west of Kramatorsk. However, because the group's units needed to be regrouped and because one tank corps (3rd) must be left at Kramatorsk for flank security, units arrived to Kranoarmayeskoye by portions, and when they finally gathered there, it was already late and they were gradually pushed north by Germans.
3rd Tank Corps according to the unit's history had 31 operational tanks at the start of operation. Reached Kramatorsk on 5 February with 23 tanks. Mid-February – 12 tanks, 12 armored cars, 18 armored personnel carriers. By the end of 21 February – 12 tanks. The corps remained at Kramatorsk till 27 February.
10th Tank Corps was transferred from the West Front (region of Mozhaisk) beginning from late December 1942. By that time it had 7 700 men, 177 tanks (25 KV, 66 T-34, 9 Mk-II, 35 T-70, 42 T-70), 540 wheeled vehicles. After detaining marched to Starobelsk, 183 Tank Brigade (40 tanks) participated in the battle for the city together with 4 Guards Tank Corps. Starobelsk was taken on 23 January. By the end of 26 January the main forces of the corps concentrated in Starobelsk with 41 tanks. Many tanks broke down during the march. By the start of the operation the corps had 101 operational tanks. Alternative data (Isaev): 22 T-34 and 12 light (T-60/70) in the 178 Tank Brigade, 19 T-34 in the 183 Tank Brigade, 1 KV, 6 light tank in the 186 Tank Brigade. Apparently there were also tanks in the corps HQ. Attached were 52 Rifle Division, 407 AT artillery regiment, 606 AA artillery regiment, 265 Guards Mortar Battalion (rocket launchers), 28 Sapper Battalion. By 11 February the corps was regrouped to the west and gathered north of Slavyansk, having 11 T-34, 7 light tanks in 183 Tank Brigade, 3 KV and 8 light tank in the 186 Tank Brigade, 13 T-34 in the 11 Tank Brigade (attached). 178 Tank Brigade without tank was left behind. On 12 February the march to Krasnoarmeyskoye began, which was delayed by German counterattacks on 12-13 February. As a result, the vanguard (183 Tank Brigade) reached Krasnoarmeuskiy Rudnik on 14 February and Dobroploye on 15, establishing contact with the 4 Guards Tank Corps at Krasnoarmeyskoye. The brigade was joined by 10 tanks, which previously broke down or lagged behind on a march. The main forces only on 14 February gathered at Sergeyevka, having 3 T-34 and 5 T-70 in the 11th Tank Brigade, and 2 KV and 6 T-70 - in 186th TBr plus 11th Motorized Rifle Brigade. On the morning of 16 February after handing over its positions to the 18th Tank Corps, the main forces joined the 183rd Tank Brigade. On 18 February Krasnoarmeyskoye was lost by the 4th GTC, the group commanded by the 183rd Tank Brigade CO colonel Andryuschenko was formed, comprising units of 183 TBr, 11 Motorized Rifle Brigade, 7 Ski Brigade, 9 and 12 Guards Tank Brigades, a battery of 407 AT artillery regiment. The group retook the center of Krasnoarmeyskoye. By the end of 19 February 19 operational tanks remained in the corps. Andryuschenko’s group at Krasnoarmeyskoye had 9 T-34 and 8 T-70 on the same day. On 21 February the corps had 4 T-34 and 7 T-70 in 183 Tank Brigade, 1 KV and 2 T-34 (from 4 Guards Tank Corps) in 186 Tank Brigade, 1 T-34 and 3 light tanks in 11 Tank Brigade, 2 T-34, 2 T-70, 1 T-60, 4 37-mm AA guns in the corps HQ. On 22 February defends Stepanovka with 4 T-34, 5 T-70, 1 T-60. On 23 February Stepanovka was encircled and the corps together with a group of the 18th Tank Corps (see below) retreats to Aleksandrovka in the morning of 24 February with 3 T-34 and 3 T-70. By the end of the day 2 T-34 and T-70 remain operational. In the night 24/25 February defensive positions are occupied at Barvenkovo, 9 T-34 and T-70 are handed over from the 4th Guards Corps. After 27 February the corps is withdrawn to Krasniy Liman for refitting. Andryuschenko’s group broke out from Krasnoarmeyskoye on the night of 22 February and reached Krasniy Liman with 2 500 men on 25 February.
18th Tank Corps – 7 T-34, 10 T-70, 10 76-mm guns on 15 February. On 21 February defends Dobropolye with 6 T-34. On 22 February a group of 181 Tank Brigade, 640 AA artillery regiment and 52 Motorcycle Battalion (6 T-34, 4 76-mm guns, 10 37-mm guns) defends Stepanovka. Another group consisting of 110 and 170 Tank Brigades (without tanks), 32 Motorcycle Brigade, 442 AT artillery regiment and a rocket launcher battalion (10 BA-64 armored cars, 13 guns, 20 mortars, 4 rocket launchers) is cut off short of Stepanovka and joined friendly forces only on 1 March,
4th Guards Tank Corps had 28 T-34 and 12 T-70 by the start of the operation, and less than 50% of authorized personnel and weapons. All tanks were gathered in the 14th Guards Tank Brigade, which is committed to action after 1 February. 12 and 13 GTBr remained at Novopskov, awaiting replacements. Apparently, they were not received because on 7 February the corps concentrated at Kramatorsk having 37 operational tanks (17 tanks were handed over from 14th to 12th GTBr). In addition 9th Guards Tank Brigade and 7 Ski Brigade were attached. On 10 February all these units left for Krasnoarmeyskoye, save 13th Tank Brigade which was left without tanks to guard communications. On 18 February the corps at Krasnoarmeyskoye had 17 operational tanks. On 20 February the 13th Guards Tank Brigade concentrated at Barvenkovo as a mobile group’s reserve were it received 32 new T-34. 24 February – the entire corps is gathered at Barvenkovo.
That is from the histories of 3, 10, 4 Guards Tank Corps, "Osvobozhdeniye Donbassa' by Yershov, "Bitva za Kharkov" by Isaev.
Regarding composition, Vatutin wrote in his report to Stavka of 20 January 1943, that the group was to consist of 3, 10 and 18 Tank Corps, three rifle divisions (unnamed),three AT artillery regiments, three AA artillery regiments and three rocket launcher regiments, and also three ski brigades (5,7 and 10) after arrival by railway. Apparently, the plan was to create three battle groups, each consisting of one of every type of unit, that can also be confirmed by the composition of the 10 Tank Corps group. In the same report it was said that the 4th Guards Tank Corps had no tanks, and there was no means to replenish it. It seems that some tanks were found after 20 January, but by start of February the units was still refitting in the second echelon.
Re: Mobile Group Popov - TO&E for Battle of Kharkov 1943
Many thanks for the long reply Art! I really appreciate it! I presume that the tanks called Mark II must be lend-lease Matildas?
/Daniel
/Daniel
Re: Mobile Group Popov - TO&E for Battle of Kharkov 1943
Yes.D. Löwenhamn wrote: I really appreciate it! I presume that the tanks called Mark II must be lend-lease Matildas?
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Re: Mobile Group Popov - TO&E for Battle of Kharkov 1943
Hello, here's my translation of Mobile (Panzer) Group Popov.
Shoud have been continued, but I never got time for it!
The Story is long, but I hope you have the patience to read it!
http://www.feldgrau.net/forum/viewtopic ... 45&t=20364
Thanks for reading, I hope...
Greets
Johnny B. Goode (aka Juha)
Shoud have been continued, but I never got time for it!
The Story is long, but I hope you have the patience to read it!
http://www.feldgrau.net/forum/viewtopic ... 45&t=20364
Thanks for reading, I hope...
Greets
Johnny B. Goode (aka Juha)
"Die Blechtrommel trommelt noch!"
Re: Mobile Group Popov - TO&E for Battle of Kharkov 1943
Some correction to this article: the group also included the 18th Tank Corps. It crossed Sev. Donetz in first days of February 1943, not 9-10 February, in the area east of Izyum.