Soviet Naval Battles

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lupodimare89
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Re: Soviet Naval Battles (help with info)

#616

Post by lupodimare89 » 25 Oct 2014, 12:03

Back...

For January 1942 in Baltic there is little to say due heavy ice.

However on 12 January it's said that "at noon Schleswig-Holstein hit an underwater obstacle in the Gulf of Riga. This eliminates her from further operations."
Later day, 13 January, it's said to be in “precarious” situation, needed towing.

She was on ice-breaking duties alongside ice-breaker.
Some details are known about what happened exactly?

igorr
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Re: Soviet Naval Battles (help with info)

#617

Post by igorr » 26 Oct 2014, 04:36

Well, as it said - hit underwater object near Marsrags Light. Very big hole with water penetration in Abt. V-IX. Ship served in Riga gulf as ice-breaker from 10.1.42.


lupodimare89
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Re: Soviet Naval Battles (help with info)

#618

Post by lupodimare89 » 27 Oct 2014, 18:55

Yes sorry, found out that i had not recorder the reply for this one...

Btw, meanwhile here something of curious i've found on tsushima.net and it gave no further explains-talks-details:
Morozov wrote directly this:http://tsushima.su/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7161&p=20
7-8 мая “KM 6”, “KM 28”, “KM 29” и “KM 30”, замаскированные под буксиры и лихтеры, запланировали постановку мин в северной бухте Лавенсари. Во время боя с советскими сторожевыми судами произошло столкновение между “KM 6” и “KM 29”, которые вынуждены были прекратить бой из-за полученных повреждений. Два других корабля, выполнив задание, были под конец обстреляны русской береговой артиллерией и подверглись налету истребителя. “KM 28” получил легкие повреждения
5/6.6.43 - немецкая постановка Зандер-1б (8 ТМВ) - сев. Лавенсари
5 июня “KM 6”, “KM 28” и “KM 29” закончили начатую 7 – 8 мая пос¬тановку мин, при этом им пришлось выдержать ожесточенный ближний бой с внезапно напавшим на них советским бронекатером, кото¬рый получил повреждения.
I'm wrong or here we have two clashes with effects on Germans?
Never seen before, and interesting to find these little surprises.

If i translate correctly, the first clash resulted in damage and abandoning of mission by KM-6 and KM-29 after a fight with Soviet patrols , while of the other two that keep on the minelaying, another was damaged by coastal artillery

I've not understood exactly who was damaged in the second fight, the German KMs, the soviet gunboat or all?

Checking on the main KTB it say nothing of the first day, however it say about the June fighting (i had already previously noticed the following claim) that there were "engagements at close range with an armoured Russian gunboat of 30 or 40 tons". Claimed damaged with explosive charges and hand grenades and heavily damaged. According the KTB she wasn't boarded only because of heavy sea.
The group of German boat it's said to have laid 8 TMB mines before the clash.

igorr
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Re: Soviet Naval Battles (help with info)

#619

Post by igorr » 28 Oct 2014, 04:27

Yes, it's said about two clashes. Your translation is correct but in last words little error - KM.28's damages not specified because apart from being gunned from shore, cutters was strafed by a fighter.
In second clash damaged was soviet boat. I don't know name but 6 men was wounded.

lupodimare89
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Re: Soviet Naval Battles (help with info)

#620

Post by lupodimare89 » 30 Oct 2014, 13:31

From german words it could be hinted it was a BKA of 1125 class (the boat of second clash)
I will try to make a question for details on tsushima.

Especially concerning the exact evaluation of germans damage, if it's known.

lupodimare89
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Re: Soviet Naval Battles (help with info)

#621

Post by lupodimare89 » 14 Nov 2014, 11:10

So.... (reporting replies from tsushima)

It seems that the first quoted text was actually from Meister, and Morozov say he doesn't believe in it (one could ask why posting it on first place v.v)

Basically the two damaged KM actually collided: there was one MO that fired but without effect on both sides.
The aircraft attack was real and from U-2 biplane.

On second battle, no detail, it's not known identity of gunboat.


So basically denial+lack of details v.v

As soon as i can i will get back to the KTBs searching for interesting stuff

lupodimare89
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Re: Soviet Naval Battles (help with info)

#622

Post by lupodimare89 » 22 Nov 2014, 18:42

Little data from February 1942, as expected there is little because the sea is still frozen.

However on 11 February there is an interesting report speaking about the ex-dutch aux. minesweepers RA-51,52,54 and 56 to be sent south.
RA-53 and RA-55, who we've seen as mysterious losses in 1941, are remarkably absents, giving further confirmation of their loss.
Also basic data of them are given: 23m of lenght, 4.5m width, 1.1m draught)

lupodimare89
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Re: Soviet Naval Battles (help with info)

#623

Post by lupodimare89 » 04 Dec 2014, 11:24

Sorry the big delay (study).

Made the check for March 1942, as expected found absolutely nothing of interesting not known.

lupodimare89
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Re: Soviet Naval Battles (help with info)

#624

Post by lupodimare89 » 16 Dec 2014, 11:39

Re-checked April 1942, and also here nothing.

lupodimare89
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Re: Soviet Naval Battles (help with info)

#625

Post by lupodimare89 » 29 Dec 2014, 17:54

After a big delay, here there is a little info about one of the big holes of knowledge:

I've asked to Miroslav Morozov a specific question of some sinkings of German military units into the Gulf of Finland.
In some (german) sites there are a number of events recorded: wlb-stuttgart.de

Here we have the five main sinking between 1942 and 1943 who occurred around Tytursaari/Tytters
(in this question for M.M i had excluded the few ones achieved closer the Finnish coasts )

The five ones are UJ-1203, UJ-1211, R-66, UJ-1204 and SAT-1 Ost.

Of these, UJ-1203 was a mistake: actually the ship was sunk deeply in German waters (and Gulf of Finland was also frozen).
And aux.minesweeper R-66 was identified as victim of German own field ("Sauna-III")

The other three are:

7 August 1942
Submarine-hunter UJ-1211 / Rau X.
I've read it was sunk "between Suur and Pien-Tytärsaari on an old sowj minefield", while chasing submarine ShCh-303 or ShCh-406.

26 October 1942
Submarine-hunter UJ-1204 / Bohemia.
" runs in stormy seas at Pien-Tytärsaari sowj on a mine and sinks."

4 August 1943 ( Navypedia say (wrongly) on 11/Jul/1943)
SAT-1 Ost sunk by mines south of Tytters.
Hit a mine at 16.30 and immediately sank. 28 MIA, 35 rescued including commander.


These three ships were sunk according M.M. by small defensive fields laid by TKA (motor torpedo boats).
Sadly it appears identity of minelayer units isn't clear, but we can adds another small-size, but moderately effective activity for TKA in Baltic.

It is especially interesting the loss of SAT-1 Ost: she was the one involved in gun-fight with Soviet destroyers in 1941, being temporarily grounded that time.

Mangrove
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Re: Soviet Naval Battles (help with info)

#626

Post by Mangrove » 01 Jan 2015, 12:36

lupodimare89 wrote: 4 August 1943 ( Navypedia say (wrongly) on 11/Jul/1943)
SAT-1 Ost sunk by mines south of Tytters.
Hit a mine at 16.30 and immediately sank. 28 MIA, 35 rescued including commander.
The site was sweeped of mines by Finnish 2. Raivaajalaivue between 7 and 12 August 1943. The area sweeped was limited by following coordinates:

N59°52'30", E27°06'00"
N59°50'50", E27°01'30"
N59°45'40", E27°07'30"
N59°48'10", E27°12'50"

lupodimare89
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Re: Soviet Naval Battles (help with info)

#627

Post by lupodimare89 » 08 Jan 2015, 11:49

The site was sweeped of mines by Finnish 2. Raivaajalaivue between 7 and 12 August 1943. The area sweeped was limited by following coordinates:
It say something of the mines' type?
Morozov just said all of them were laid by TK

It's just a guessing, but from what i recalled the fields should not have been large: MO and TKA appears to have carried repetitive operations of small fields on same places during the war.


(PS in these time i'm a bit slowed down my works, mostly due: 1) a good chunk of events have already been discussed
2) study-time. )

However i invite Finnish users that can read these war diaries to write here details or interesting points (maybe of the same things discussed before: naval skirmish, submarines and anti-submarine operations etc...)

lupodimare89
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Re: Soviet Naval Battles (help with info)

#628

Post by lupodimare89 » 08 Jan 2015, 13:32

Btw, re-checked May 1942, and once again nothing relevant to be added.

Mangrove
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Re: Soviet Naval Battles (help with info)

#629

Post by Mangrove » 13 Jan 2015, 19:59

lupodimare89 wrote: It say something of the mines' type?
Following mines and devices were found and cleared:

Type "Rb/V" in N59°51'45", E27°05'10"

Type "M/V" in N59°47'15", E27°10'00"
Type "RE/V" in N59°47'15", E27°10'00"

Type "Rb/V" in N59°47'15", E27°12'00"
Type "M/V" in N59°47'15", E27°12'00"
Type "Rb/V" in N59°47'15", E27°12'00"

"M/V" = Mine, Russian
"Rb/V = ?, Russian
"RE/V" = Anti-sweeping device, Russian

lupodimare89
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Re: Soviet Naval Battles (help with info)

#630

Post by lupodimare89 » 23 Jan 2015, 13:08

Thanks again, btw i would like to re-check again that nice finnish site kotisivut.konet.fi

Just recently i re-checked again it and was wondering about a detail i already noticed:
http://kotisivut.fonet.fi/~aromaa/Navyg ... index.html
On the following day Nuoli and Sisu attacked enemy ships in Suurkylä harbour (Suursaari). Their targets were two guard ships, one submarine and a tug with barge. The Soviet submarine L 3 was anchored ashore off the island. While approaching, the Finnish boats noticed two enemy ships lying in anchor and both boats made two attacks. The boats launched all four torpedoes and claimed to have sunk two ships after noticing two explosions. According to Soviet sources, three torpedoes exploded as they hit the bottom of the anchorage at 20-30 meter distance from the sub, causing minor damages to the ship's mine tubes, while the fourth torpedo was crippled by a 45 mm shell fired from L 3 that hit the torpedo's motor section, so it stopped and sank - in order to be raised later by the Soviets. Finnish MTB´s escaped with some splinter damage.
This event i've made question before saw no reply. I was interested to know if there was some further detail/confirmation/knowledge of splinter damage received on one (or both) the attacking MTBs.

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