Reduced rifle divisions of the Red army

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Eugen Pinak
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Reduced rifle divisions of the Red army

#1

Post by Eugen Pinak » 18 Nov 2015, 00:14

Reduced rifle divisions of the Red army

The human cost of stopping and turning beck of the German army in 1941-42 was enormous for the Red Army. Germany also occupied a lot of Soviet territory, further reducing manpower pool, available for the Red Army. So by 1943 Red Army was hit by manpower crisis, which was felt hardest in the most “manpower-hungry” arm - infantry.
As a rule, serious shortages were met with reductions of units’ shtats (TO&Es), but this time Soviet High Command decided differently. Instead of reducing shtats it ordered subordinated Fronts to develop reductions on the existing Rifle division shtat No.04/550, which was c.10000 men strong. It seems, that general guidances prescribed only desired sizes of the reduced rifle division - details were left to the deliberations of Fronts’ HQs. My guess - it was done to ensure Fronts will utilize available resources to the fullest.
It’s also worth mentioning, that such reductions were done only to divisions - rifle brigades were exempt from it. Apparently, they were considered too small as they were.

As a result, there were different versions of rifle divisions. Note, that reductions in size does not necessary meant reduction in combat power. Reductions begun in the logistic and combat support units, end even reductions in line units sometimes led to increase, not decrease of firepower. For example, some versions or deduced rifle regiment at Volkhov Front meant forming 4th (SMG) battalion in rifle regiments in place of regimental SMG company. Numbers of LMG and HMG were increased as well. Sometimes rifle battalion MG company was replaced by SMG company - reducing support strength, but increasing strength of line units. But usually reduction meant disbanding some line units (rifle battalions, companies, platoons or squads) to ensure the rest were large enough to keep functioning in combat.
There seem to be no detailed guidelines how to reduce units - each front (and sometimes lower echelon down to division) decided on this, according to the unit personnel strength, armament and personal preferences of the commander.

It’s hard to judge effectiveness of those measures, but draconian orders about keeping strength of rifle companies large enough for effective combat operations mean, that no matter how hard you try, you can’t squeeze a liter out of pint glass. Reduced line units simply bled faster, and reduced support/service units were simply improvised... out of the rifle companies. Also this reduction meant, that even 3000-strong rifle division still kept 1 divisional and 3 regimental HQs, albeit reduced - good for promotions, bad for combat effectiveness.

Shortcomings of reduced rifle divisions are clearly shown by the last wartime shtat of the Soviet rifle division - No.05/40. It reduced strength of division’s rifle regiments and service units to a small degree while adding field replacement battalion and increasing strength of engineer and signal units. Artillery regiment was turned into 3-regiment brigade and SPG regiment was also included in rifle division. So even small reductions in line units were offset by increase of support and replacement units.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Several examples of reduced rifle division organizations below.
Volkhov Front, 1943 (reduced rifle regiment): https://pamyat-naroda.ru/dou/?docID=132632616
Western Front, April 1943: https://pamyat-naroda.ru/dou/?docID=262035198
31st Army, August 1944: https://pamyat-naroda.ru/dou/?docID=130459857
28th Army, November 1944: https://pamyat-naroda.ru/dou/?docID=133402269
Zemland Group of Forces, March 1945: https://pamyat-naroda.ru/dou/?docID=130443451 and others

And some schemes of organization of reduced rifle divisions:
Volkhov Front, 1943 (reduced rifle regiment): https://pamyat-naroda.ru/dou/?docID=132632624
Western Front, April 1943: https://pamyat-naroda.ru/dou/?docID=262035196
28th Army, May 1944: https://pamyat-naroda.ru/dou/?docID=133414279
61st Army, July 1944: https://pamyat-naroda.ru/dou/?docID=136537969
Karelian Front, October 1944:
6000 - https://pamyat-naroda.ru/dou/?docID=263350302
5000 - https://pamyat-naroda.ru/dou/?docID=263350306
4000 - https://pamyat-naroda.ru/dou/?docID=263350310
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
FYI, you can see typical strength of Red Army Division in 1945 here: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 9&t=216640

Gary Kennedy
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Re: Reduced rifle divisions of the Red army

#2

Post by Gary Kennedy » 18 Nov 2015, 02:48

Eugen,

That's a fascinating group of documents you've tracked down there, thank you. I'd found a few details for reduced strength Rifle Coys and been pointed to the reduced strength Rifle Regt in your first link (which unfortunately has a page missing, which I was hoping could identify the seemingly two extra posts added to the Regimental staffs after 04/551 was issued).

Gary


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Re: Reduced rifle divisions of the Red army

#3

Post by Eugen Pinak » 18 Nov 2015, 11:55

Gary Kennedy wrote:Eugen,

That's a fascinating group of documents you've tracked down there, thank you.
You're welcome.
Gary Kennedy wrote: I'd found a few details for reduced strength Rifle Coys and been pointed to the reduced strength Rifle Regt in your first link (which unfortunately has a page missing, which I was hoping could identify the seemingly two extra posts added to the Regimental staffs after 04/551 was issued).
??? It seems to me that all the pages are present. Detailed shat 04/551 follows this document from page 25 on.

Also note, that this whole folder is devoted to various versions of reduced rifle divisions, so I advise you to download it all (from page 02 to page 77).

Gary Kennedy
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Re: Reduced rifle divisions of the Red army

#4

Post by Gary Kennedy » 18 Nov 2015, 20:26

Eugen,

It's the amendments made to 04/551 that I was thinking of. The full shtat is indeed available, with the full strength of 2474 all ranks detailed, but this was trimmed back to 2443 during (I think) 1943. Art outlined the deletion of Deputy Coy commanders and Coy/Pl level political officers in the original thread on 04/551. That took 45 off the total, but then there were some new posts created. It looks like 2 political officers added into each Rifle Bn, and one CW NCO added into each Rifle Bn and each Bty of thr Regtl Arty, which adds 12. That makes 2441, which leaves 2 new posts. From the now bewildering number of pages I've seen over the past few weeks I reckon they were two officers added to RHQ, but I don't know what they were.

I hoped the reduced strength table in your link above would cast some light, but the page detailing the Supply Staff, Recce Pl and the bulk of the Signal Coy is missing.

https://pamyat-naroda.ru/dou/?docID=132632616

Which folder are you referring to re pages 2-77? I'm already getting dirty looks from my broadband provider for going over my limit, so I may as well download some more while I'm at it!

Cheers,

Gary

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Re: Reduced rifle divisions of the Red army

#5

Post by Paul_Atreides » 18 Nov 2015, 23:12

Eugen Pinak wrote:The human cost of stopping and turning beck of the German army in 1941-42 was enormous for the Red Army. Germany also occupied a lot of Soviet territory, further reducing manpower pool, available for the Red Army. So by 1943 Red Army was hit by manpower crisis, which was felt hardest in the most “manpower-hungry” arm - infantry.
As a rule, serious shortages were met with reductions of units’ shtats (TO&Es), but this time Soviet High Command decided differently.
A simple but incorrect explanation. The Red Army' strength in 1943-1945 was greater than in 1941-1942.

Furthermore, average strength of a rifle division not much was changing during whole war:

Winter campaign 1941/42 - 5 700;
Winter campaign 1942/43 - 6 000;
Summer-autumn campaign 1943 - 5 500;
Winter-spring campaign 1944 - 5 000;
Summer-autumn campaign 1944 - 6 600;
Europe campaign 1945 - 5 100.
There is no waste, there are reserves (Slogan of German Army in World Wars)

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Re: Reduced rifle divisions of the Red army

#6

Post by Eugen Pinak » 19 Nov 2015, 00:03

Gary Kennedy wrote: The full shtat is indeed available, with the full strength of 2474 all ranks detailed, but this was trimmed back to 2443 during (I think) 1943.
Document from 11.1943 already gives this number: 176 officers + 685 NCOs + 1582 privates = 2443 men.
Gary Kennedy wrote: Art outlined the deletion of Deputy Coy commanders and Coy/Pl level political officers in the original thread on 04/551. That took 45 off the total, but then there were some new posts created. It looks like 2 political officers added into each Rifle Bn, and one CW NCO added into each Rifle Bn and each Bty of thr Regtl Arty, which adds 12. That makes 2441, which leaves 2 new posts. From the now bewildering number of pages I've seen over the past few weeks I reckon they were two officers added to RHQ, but I don't know what they were.
This is what I was able to find, comparing versions of Shtat 04/551 from 12.1942 and 10.1944 (changes are shown compared to Shtat 04/551 from 12.1942):
Rgt Command + 1
RHQ + 1
Supply staff +1
Mounted Recce Pl -1
Foot Recce Pl -1
SMG Coy - 2 (Deputy Coy commander and Coy level political officer)
ATR Coy - 23 (Deputy Coy commander and Coy level political officer + platoons were reduced from 23 to 15 men)
Signal Coy - 2 (Deputy Coy commander and Coy level political officer)
Rifle Bn HQ + 2
Rife Coys - 2 (Deputy Coy commander and Coy level political officer)
MG Coy - 2 (Deputy Coy commander and Coy level political officer)
Mort. Coy + 5 ((Deputy Coy commander and Coy level political officer REMOVED, 7-men HQ squad ADDED)
45-mm ATG Btry -1 (Coy level political officer-???)
76-mm gun Btry -1 (Coy level political officer-???)
Transport Coy - 2 (Deputy Coy commander and Coy level political officer-???)

Note, that after that date there were additional changes - in March 1945 Rifle division had different strength from those in October 1944.
Gary Kennedy wrote: Which folder are you referring to re pages 2-77? I'm already getting dirty looks from my broadband provider for going over my limit, so I may as well download some more while I'm at it!
I can understand you - I've downloaded over 16 Gb of data from this web-site :)

As for the numbers I mean, that if you go to this link - https://pamyat-naroda.ru/dou/?docID=132632616 - and browse all the pictures in this folder from 00000002.jpg to 00000077.jpg , you will get complete file about plans for reduced rifle division in Volkhov Front HQ in 1943.

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Re: Reduced rifle divisions of the Red army

#7

Post by Eugen Pinak » 19 Nov 2015, 00:24

Paul_Atreides wrote:
Eugen Pinak wrote:The human cost of stopping and turning beck of the German army in 1941-42 was enormous for the Red Army. Germany also occupied a lot of Soviet territory, further reducing manpower pool, available for the Red Army. So by 1943 Red Army was hit by manpower crisis, which was felt hardest in the most “manpower-hungry” arm - infantry.
As a rule, serious shortages were met with reductions of units’ shtats (TO&Es), but this time Soviet High Command decided differently.
A simple but incorrect explanation. The Red Army' strength in 1943-1945 was greater than in 1941-1942.
Well, maybe for you some 6 million irrecoverable losses and some 20 million of manpower left on occupied territories are not much - but I beg to differ.
As for the increased numbers of Red Army (1942 - average monthly c.5,3 million, 1943 - c.6,3 million, 1944 - c.6,7 million, 1945 - c.6,3 million) you're forgetting, that large chunk of that increase went towards new tank, SPG, artillery, etc. units.
Also infantry tends to wear down faster, than other arms - between 10000-strong rifle division and 10000-strong tank corps personnel turnover per month will be faster in the rifle division.
Paul_Atreides wrote:Furthermore, average strength of a rifle division not much was changing during whole war:

Winter campaign 1941/42 - 5 700;
Winter campaign 1942/43 - 6 000;
Summer-autumn campaign 1943 - 5 500;
Winter-spring campaign 1944 - 5 000;
Summer-autumn campaign 1944 - 6 600;
Europe campaign 1945 - 5 100.
Very interesting numbers. Can you tell, where are they from?

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Re: Reduced rifle divisions of the Red army

#8

Post by Paul_Atreides » 19 Nov 2015, 09:53

Eugen Pinak wrote:Well, maybe for you some 6 million irrecoverable losses and some 20 million of manpower left on occupied territories are not much - but I beg to differ.
The army' strength managed to maintain the proper level (11+ mlns) despite huge losses.
As for the increased numbers of Red Army (1942 - average monthly c.5,3 million, 1943 - c.6,3 million, 1944 - c.6,7 million, 1945 - c.6,3 million) you're forgetting, that large chunk of that increase went towards new tank, SPG, artillery, etc. units.
Main problem is too many rifle formations (divisions and brigades). 380 division equivalents on 1.12.41, 525 on 1.05.42, 500 on 1.11.42, ~520-530 - 1943-1945.

So we have 6+ mlns in the Active army, but rifle branch within only 2,67 mlns (in 1943-1945, see Krivosheev) on 420-450 division equivalents.
Very interesting numbers. Can you tell, where are they from?
Михалев С. Н. Военная стратегия: Подготовка и ведение войн Нового и Новейшего времени. М., 2003. С. 444, 451.
There is no waste, there are reserves (Slogan of German Army in World Wars)

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Re: Reduced rifle divisions of the Red army

#9

Post by Paul_Atreides » 19 Nov 2015, 10:21

Paul_Atreides wrote:Main problem is too many rifle formations (divisions and brigades).
Same problem was in the German army:

"Anstelle von 276 Divisionen [in July 1943] großenteils sehr geringer Kampfkraft und Beweglichkeit hätte man sich zumindest die im Juni 1941 vorhandenen 208 Divisionen voll kampfkräftig erhalten können". (B. Müller-Hillebrand "Das Heer 1933-1945". Bd. III. S. 110)
There is no waste, there are reserves (Slogan of German Army in World Wars)

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Re: Reduced rifle divisions of the Red army

#10

Post by Eugen Pinak » 19 Nov 2015, 12:32

Paul - thank you for the pointing at Mihalev's book. I've found a lot of useful data there.
Paul_Atreides wrote: Eugen Pinak wrote:
Well, maybe for you some 6 million irrecoverable losses and some 20 million of manpower left on occupied territories are not much - but I beg to differ.

The army' strength managed to maintain the proper level (11+ mlns) despite huge losses.
I fail to see, how number of various construction, training, service, etc. units/establishments is related to our discussion.
On the other hand, strength of the Acting Army, given in Mihalev's book - way more related to our discussion - shows, that its' strength fluctuated and actually plunged down by the end of the war in Europe (from 6,75 millions on 1.1.1945 to 5,92 million on 9.5.1945) - despite the increase of the overall strength of the Red Army.
Paul_Atreides wrote: Eugen Pinak wrote: As for the increased numbers of Red Army (1942 - average monthly c.5,3 million, 1943 - c.6,3 million, 1944 - c.6,7 million, 1945 - c.6,3 million) you're forgetting, that large chunk of that increase went towards new tank, SPG, artillery, etc. units.

Main problem is too many rifle formations (divisions and brigades). 380 division equivalents on 1.12.41, 525 on 1.05.42, 500 on 1.11.42, ~520-530 - 1943-1945.

So we have 6+ mlns in the Active army, but rifle branch within only 2,67 mlns (in 1943-1945, see Krivosheev) on 420-450 division equivalents.
And yet c.520 rifle divisions in 1942 weren't bringing out need for reduced rifle divisions, while in 1943 the very same 520 rifle divisions brought out need for reduced rifle divisions. Why? - Maybe because in 1942 rifle troops composed c.67 percent of average Front, while in 1945 rifle troops composed only c.37 percent of average Front. So despite the increase of the overall strength of the Acting Army, strength of the rifle troops apparently decreased. And I think, huge losses among infantry played large part in the inability to keep rifle troops properly manned.

As for old debate between quality and quantity - I've already voiced my negative opinion about reduced rifle divisions. Maybe they were good for promotions, but their effectiveness left a lot to be desired.

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Re: Reduced rifle divisions of the Red army

#11

Post by Gary Kennedy » 19 Nov 2015, 14:47

Eugen,

Sorry for the confusion, I'm now officially going page blind. I thought you'd linked to this -

https://pamyat-naroda.ru/dou/?docID=262168401

Which is another variation of a reduced strength regiment, but is missing a page. It's a slightly later document I think and shows the NCO in Bn HQ for CW instruction and the new political office with an organiser and Komosol rep (?). I've found a summary somewhere showing the corrected numbers to get to 2443 for the Rifle Regt, and to 2713 for the Guards Rifle Regt. It might be best to tack them on the to 04/551 thread as these are amendments rather than reduced strengths as you've found info for here.

Gary

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Re: Reduced rifle divisions of the Red army

#12

Post by steverodgers801 » 19 Nov 2015, 22:40

There are four types of infantry, Shock, guard, standard and occupation. Shock and guard infantry always got first pick of replacements and equipment. Standard would get filled up based on the need at the time. Occupation or guard were used to guard very quiet sectors of fronts, example would be the units guarding the Germans in Lithuania in 1944 and 45. They had limited infantry, but were very heavy in machine guns and artillery. It was also Soviet practice to use up infantry units and then withdraw them for refitting so their TOE is based on their cycle and priorities. Note shock units were not always in use, they were specialized units for specific attacks and once the task was competed the components units could be reassigned.

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Re: Reduced rifle divisions of the Red army

#13

Post by Eugen Pinak » 23 Nov 2015, 16:06

Gary Kennedy wrote: It might be best to tack them on the to 04/551 thread as these are amendments rather than reduced strengths as you've found info for here.
Now I am confused - I was unable to find 04/551 thread on this forum. Can you post a link to it?

steverodgers801 wrote: There are four types of infantry, Shock, guard, standard and occupation. Shock and guard infantry always got first pick of replacements and equipment. Standard would get filled up based on the need at the time. Occupation or guard were used to guard very quiet sectors of fronts, example would be the units guarding the Germans in Lithuania in 1944 and 45. They had limited infantry, but were very heavy in machine guns and artillery.
You're confusing war-games and reality. There was neither special shock nor occupation infantry units in the Soviet Army. There were no Germans in Lithuania in 1945.

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Re: Reduced rifle divisions of the Red army

#14

Post by Art » 23 Nov 2015, 17:08

Eugen Pinak wrote: There were no Germans in Lithuania in 1945.
Formally speaking there were:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Memel
But I guess the poster was talking about Kurland in Latvia.
The main point is correct: there were hardly any sorts of infantry in the Soviet Army at least as far as organization is concerned.

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Re: Reduced rifle divisions of the Red army

#15

Post by Eugen Pinak » 23 Nov 2015, 17:18

Art wrote:
Eugen Pinak wrote: There were no Germans in Lithuania in 1945.
Formally speaking there were:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Memel
That's news for me - I though, Memel was reduced before the end of 1944. Well - 100 years to live, 100 years to learn :)
Art wrote:But I guess the poster was talking about Kurland in Latvia.
Obviously. He's also incorrect in regards of "guarding" - Soviet troops actively tried to reduce Kurland pocket, but with little success.

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