Soviet milita 1941
Soviet milita 1941
I see Soviet Union set up many milita divisons in 1941, at least 13 in Moscow and 10 in Leningrad. Many were converted into Rifle division. Like 32rd Army its intial composition : 2, 7, 8, 13 and 18th Milita divisions were converted into 2, 29, 8, 140 and 18th RD respectively. Some more examples : Odessa milita division redesignated into 421st RD, Kremenchun Milita divison became 297th RD, Stalino Milita division converted into 383rd RD and Voroshilovgrad Milita division redesignated into 395th RD.
But what difference between army reseves and milita, I guess both had received military training prior to war. Why some directly drafted into regular, other first milita then converted into regular ? I guess Soviet training level for all is same. Thank
But what difference between army reseves and milita, I guess both had received military training prior to war. Why some directly drafted into regular, other first milita then converted into regular ? I guess Soviet training level for all is same. Thank
Re: Soviet milita 1941
I don't fully understand what I mean by reserves. Militia units consisted (at least theoretically) of volunteers not liable for mobilization and were organized and formed by local civil administration. TO&Es were ad-hoc yet roughly modeled after a standard rifle division. Personnel included men both with and without prior military training. Personally I believe that there was no good rationale for creating semi-regular militia units and the whole affair was an unsuccessful improvisation.Kelvin wrote: But what difference between army reseves and milita
Odessa rifle division was an ad-hoc formation consisting of several stray units including Black Sea Fleet marines. It didn't have anything to do with militia from what I remember.Odessa milita division redesignated into 421st RD
Remains of the Kremenchug division were included into the 297 Rifle Division. They began as two separate units though.Kremenchun Milita divison became 297th RD
I guess in this and other cases regular divisions included some previously militia elements.Stalino Milita division converted into 383rd RD and Voroshilovgrad Milita division redesignated into 395th RD.
Re: Soviet milita 1941
Hi, Art, thank for your help.
I suppose All Soviet male had received military training because she had many enemies from all her frontier. So I would think if any differnce between Milita and reserves. Soviet 32nd and 33rd Armies ' initial compostion were five Moscow Milita divisions each. I would think why Kiev did not set up 10 more milita divisions for the defence of Kiev as she had over 800 thoudand population in this city alone in August 1941.
I suppose All Soviet male had received military training because she had many enemies from all her frontier. So I would think if any differnce between Milita and reserves. Soviet 32nd and 33rd Armies ' initial compostion were five Moscow Milita divisions each. I would think why Kiev did not set up 10 more milita divisions for the defence of Kiev as she had over 800 thoudand population in this city alone in August 1941.
Re: Soviet milita 1941
Not at all. Just to quote some examples in Leningrad out of men recruited to militia from 30 June to 2 July 1941 inclusively 20050 had prior military training and 21265 didn't:Kelvin wrote: I suppose All Soviet male had received military training
http://centralsector.narod.ru/form/reports.htm
In one Lenigrad's district 8349 men were recruited by 19 July, of them 3658 had military training and 4774 didn't:
http://centralsector.narod.ru/arch/kur/sv_div_sv.htm
Re: Soviet milita 1941
Hello, Art, thank so much for your data.
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Re: Soviet milita 1941
Nothing can be further from the truth. Before 1939 members of "non-working classes" were removed from any kind of military training.Kelvin wrote:I suppose All Soviet male had received military training because she had many enemies from all her frontier.
Re: Soviet milita 1941
Hello, Art, apart from big cities like Leningrad, Moscow or Stalino, Odessa or Crimea, why I don't see other big cities had some milita divisions as Moscow. e.g Kiev had a population of over 800,000 men. Kharkov was the fourth largest city in USSR, or some like Voronezh ? Or my on hand information is not complete. ? Thank
Re: Soviet milita 1941
Some form of irregular forces were created practically everywhere. They were either incorporated to the regular Army and continued to function as as security force in rear areas after 1941.
Re: Soviet milita 1941
Hi, Art, my source about Soviet milita divisions is from Pettiborne book about OOB on Soviet section ( two books total), this book also lists Moscow, Leningrad, Odessa, Crimea, Voroshilovgrad, Stalino, Kransador and Kremenchung had formed some Milita divisions, I guess it is not complete as USSR was highly militarized state, besides regular , they always trained milita in big cities for prevention of foreign aggression. Apart from Kiev, some cities like Dnrepropetovsk, Krivog Rog and Kharkov with huge workers here, should have milita force somewhere.
BTW, so called Moscow 2nd and 3rd Communist and 4th and 5th Worker Rifle divisions also belonged to Milita section ? Thank
BTW, so called Moscow 2nd and 3rd Communist and 4th and 5th Worker Rifle divisions also belonged to Milita section ? Thank
Re: Soviet milita 1941
Yes, mostly. There was some number of mobilized personnel, from what I remember.Kelvin wrote: BTW, so called Moscow 2nd and 3rd Communist and 4th and 5th Worker Rifle divisions also belonged to Milita section?
Three militia cavalry divisions were raised in Kuban and two more in the Don region, which became after "regularization" 10, 12, 13, 15 and 116 Cavalry Divisions respectively.
As understand the bulk of various militia units or their personnel were transferred to the regular army in late 1941-early 42. Still some irregular formations continued to exist thereafter - destroyer battalions or Leningrad home guard or some others probably.
Re: Soviet milita 1941
Hi, Art, thank so much for your help.
Re: Soviet milita 1941
Correction: 3 Moscow Rifle Division was formed from worker/communist militia battalions (battalions themselves raised in October 1941), 4 and 5 Moscow Divisions - from Moscow destroyer battalions, battalions created beginning June 41. 2 Moscow Division formed using personnel 242 Rifle Division, Moscow air defense and some minor elements, it wasn't a militia unit by origin.
There are also mentions of Ivanovo, Orenburg, Saratov, Stalingrad and Astrakhan militia rifle divisions. Ivanovo division soon became 332 Rifle Division of the RA. The others didn't become anything. Saratov militia division was especially long-living, it continued to exist until 1943.
There are also mentions of Ivanovo, Orenburg, Saratov, Stalingrad and Astrakhan militia rifle divisions. Ivanovo division soon became 332 Rifle Division of the RA. The others didn't become anything. Saratov militia division was especially long-living, it continued to exist until 1943.
Re: Soviet milita 1941
Hi, Art, thank for your additonal information. I also found three milita divisions in Baku but all were formed in the summer of 1942 and I think was in response to German threat to Caucasus.Art wrote:Correction: 3 Moscow Rifle Division was formed from worker/communist militia battalions (battalions themselves raised in October 1941), 4 and 5 Moscow Divisions - from Moscow destroyer battalions, battalions created beginning June 41. 2 Moscow Division formed using personnel 242 Rifle Division, Moscow air defense and some minor elements, it wasn't a militia unit by origin.
There are also mentions of Ivanovo, Orenburg, Saratov, Stalingrad and Astrakhan militia rifle divisions. Ivanovo division soon became 332 Rifle Division of the RA. The others didn't become anything. Saratov militia division was especially long-living, it continued to exist until 1943.