Soviet milita 1941

Discussions on all aspects of the USSR, from the Russian Civil War till the end of the Great Patriotic War and the war against Japan. Hosted by Art.
Post Reply
Kelvin
Member
Posts: 3117
Joined: 06 Apr 2007, 15:49

Soviet milita 1941

#1

Post by Kelvin » 05 Jul 2016, 08:02

I see Soviet Union set up many milita divisons in 1941, at least 13 in Moscow and 10 in Leningrad. Many were converted into Rifle division. Like 32rd Army its intial composition : 2, 7, 8, 13 and 18th Milita divisions were converted into 2, 29, 8, 140 and 18th RD respectively. Some more examples : Odessa milita division redesignated into 421st RD, Kremenchun Milita divison became 297th RD, Stalino Milita division converted into 383rd RD and Voroshilovgrad Milita division redesignated into 395th RD.

But what difference between army reseves and milita, I guess both had received military training prior to war. Why some directly drafted into regular, other first milita then converted into regular ? I guess Soviet training level for all is same. Thank

Art
Forum Staff
Posts: 7028
Joined: 04 Jun 2004, 20:49
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Soviet milita 1941

#2

Post by Art » 05 Jul 2016, 18:21

Kelvin wrote: But what difference between army reseves and milita
I don't fully understand what I mean by reserves. Militia units consisted (at least theoretically) of volunteers not liable for mobilization and were organized and formed by local civil administration. TO&Es were ad-hoc yet roughly modeled after a standard rifle division. Personnel included men both with and without prior military training. Personally I believe that there was no good rationale for creating semi-regular militia units and the whole affair was an unsuccessful improvisation.
Odessa milita division redesignated into 421st RD
Odessa rifle division was an ad-hoc formation consisting of several stray units including Black Sea Fleet marines. It didn't have anything to do with militia from what I remember.
Kremenchun Milita divison became 297th RD
Remains of the Kremenchug division were included into the 297 Rifle Division. They began as two separate units though.
Stalino Milita division converted into 383rd RD and Voroshilovgrad Milita division redesignated into 395th RD.
I guess in this and other cases regular divisions included some previously militia elements.


Kelvin
Member
Posts: 3117
Joined: 06 Apr 2007, 15:49

Re: Soviet milita 1941

#3

Post by Kelvin » 06 Jul 2016, 21:09

Hi, Art, thank for your help.

I suppose All Soviet male had received military training because she had many enemies from all her frontier. So I would think if any differnce between Milita and reserves. Soviet 32nd and 33rd Armies ' initial compostion were five Moscow Milita divisions each. I would think why Kiev did not set up 10 more milita divisions for the defence of Kiev as she had over 800 thoudand population in this city alone in August 1941.

Art
Forum Staff
Posts: 7028
Joined: 04 Jun 2004, 20:49
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Soviet milita 1941

#4

Post by Art » 06 Jul 2016, 21:54

Kelvin wrote: I suppose All Soviet male had received military training
Not at all. Just to quote some examples in Leningrad out of men recruited to militia from 30 June to 2 July 1941 inclusively 20050 had prior military training and 21265 didn't:
http://centralsector.narod.ru/form/reports.htm
In one Lenigrad's district 8349 men were recruited by 19 July, of them 3658 had military training and 4774 didn't:
http://centralsector.narod.ru/arch/kur/sv_div_sv.htm

Kelvin
Member
Posts: 3117
Joined: 06 Apr 2007, 15:49

Re: Soviet milita 1941

#5

Post by Kelvin » 07 Jul 2016, 08:25

Hello, Art, thank so much for your data.

Eugen Pinak
Member
Posts: 1234
Joined: 16 Jun 2004, 17:09
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Contact:

Re: Soviet milita 1941

#6

Post by Eugen Pinak » 07 Jul 2016, 09:26

Kelvin wrote:I suppose All Soviet male had received military training because she had many enemies from all her frontier.
Nothing can be further from the truth. Before 1939 members of "non-working classes" were removed from any kind of military training.

Kelvin
Member
Posts: 3117
Joined: 06 Apr 2007, 15:49

Re: Soviet milita 1941

#7

Post by Kelvin » 27 Apr 2017, 07:34

Hello, Art, apart from big cities like Leningrad, Moscow or Stalino, Odessa or Crimea, why I don't see other big cities had some milita divisions as Moscow. e.g Kiev had a population of over 800,000 men. Kharkov was the fourth largest city in USSR, or some like Voronezh ? Or my on hand information is not complete. ? Thank

Art
Forum Staff
Posts: 7028
Joined: 04 Jun 2004, 20:49
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Soviet milita 1941

#8

Post by Art » 27 Apr 2017, 09:02

Some form of irregular forces were created practically everywhere. They were either incorporated to the regular Army and continued to function as as security force in rear areas after 1941.

Kelvin
Member
Posts: 3117
Joined: 06 Apr 2007, 15:49

Re: Soviet milita 1941

#9

Post by Kelvin » 28 Apr 2017, 11:06

Hi, Art, my source about Soviet milita divisions is from Pettiborne book about OOB on Soviet section ( two books total), this book also lists Moscow, Leningrad, Odessa, Crimea, Voroshilovgrad, Stalino, Kransador and Kremenchung had formed some Milita divisions, I guess it is not complete as USSR was highly militarized state, besides regular , they always trained milita in big cities for prevention of foreign aggression. Apart from Kiev, some cities like Dnrepropetovsk, Krivog Rog and Kharkov with huge workers here, should have milita force somewhere.

BTW, so called Moscow 2nd and 3rd Communist and 4th and 5th Worker Rifle divisions also belonged to Milita section ? Thank

Art
Forum Staff
Posts: 7028
Joined: 04 Jun 2004, 20:49
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Soviet milita 1941

#10

Post by Art » 28 Apr 2017, 11:43

Kelvin wrote: BTW, so called Moscow 2nd and 3rd Communist and 4th and 5th Worker Rifle divisions also belonged to Milita section?
Yes, mostly. There was some number of mobilized personnel, from what I remember.
Three militia cavalry divisions were raised in Kuban and two more in the Don region, which became after "regularization" 10, 12, 13, 15 and 116 Cavalry Divisions respectively.
As understand the bulk of various militia units or their personnel were transferred to the regular army in late 1941-early 42. Still some irregular formations continued to exist thereafter - destroyer battalions or Leningrad home guard or some others probably.

Kelvin
Member
Posts: 3117
Joined: 06 Apr 2007, 15:49

Re: Soviet milita 1941

#11

Post by Kelvin » 29 Apr 2017, 08:36

Hi, Art, thank so much for your help.

Art
Forum Staff
Posts: 7028
Joined: 04 Jun 2004, 20:49
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Soviet milita 1941

#12

Post by Art » 29 Apr 2017, 10:09

Correction: 3 Moscow Rifle Division was formed from worker/communist militia battalions (battalions themselves raised in October 1941), 4 and 5 Moscow Divisions - from Moscow destroyer battalions, battalions created beginning June 41. 2 Moscow Division formed using personnel 242 Rifle Division, Moscow air defense and some minor elements, it wasn't a militia unit by origin.
There are also mentions of Ivanovo, Orenburg, Saratov, Stalingrad and Astrakhan militia rifle divisions. Ivanovo division soon became 332 Rifle Division of the RA. The others didn't become anything. Saratov militia division was especially long-living, it continued to exist until 1943.

Kelvin
Member
Posts: 3117
Joined: 06 Apr 2007, 15:49

Re: Soviet milita 1941

#13

Post by Kelvin » 30 Apr 2017, 05:27

Art wrote:Correction: 3 Moscow Rifle Division was formed from worker/communist militia battalions (battalions themselves raised in October 1941), 4 and 5 Moscow Divisions - from Moscow destroyer battalions, battalions created beginning June 41. 2 Moscow Division formed using personnel 242 Rifle Division, Moscow air defense and some minor elements, it wasn't a militia unit by origin.
There are also mentions of Ivanovo, Orenburg, Saratov, Stalingrad and Astrakhan militia rifle divisions. Ivanovo division soon became 332 Rifle Division of the RA. The others didn't become anything. Saratov militia division was especially long-living, it continued to exist until 1943.
Hi, Art, thank for your additonal information. I also found three milita divisions in Baku but all were formed in the summer of 1942 and I think was in response to German threat to Caucasus.

Post Reply

Return to “The Soviet Union at War 1917-1945”