Can sombody tell me how many Soviet troops were facing the western allies at the time of German surrender and how many troops the western allies had available in Europe at that time?
On another forum somebody insists that in 1945 Patton should have been given the freedom to "kick the Russians out of all German territory" but I doubt the western allies had the military power for that task. Any comments?
Russians vs. western allies 1945...
Although inferior in the number of land troops Western Allies had very strong air forces which were also better in quality to Soviets. That for sure would have made the battle more equally matched. Soviets had also very long supply routes and had suffered from that already earlier. West European railway and road network was better.
Someone else may show the hard facts.
Someone else may show the hard facts.
You are quite correct. That's why we must wait until we'll see some facts. Perhaps Western Allies could have "kicked" Soviets out from Germany in 1945 but not without serious costs and not just like that.Timo Worst wrote:Thanks. I still have serious doubts. An "equally matched battle" is not sufficient to "kick the Russians out".
Hope that helps.tonyh wrote:Because they were prepared to take the losses that were anticipated involved in taking Berlin. So the Allies just carried on with their policy of letting the Soviets soak up the German blood with their own. It worked for the previous 4 years.Enkpitt wrote:I am puzzeld on why did the allies let Russia invade Berlin first. And where they really afraid of Russia?
Tony
The Red Army numbered around 11 million men in total, front line and rear area troops and that is the Red Army that guarded all borders of the Soviet Union as well. I could look it up, but these debates are worthless, I'd guess around at least 5-6 million faced the Western allies on the entire front.
By the end of july 44 the allies already had 1.45 million men in france. This number was accounted for by just 30 divs by the end of 45 the number would almost triple by the end of the war.
The allies also had 8000 tanks of all types in france by the end of aug this is represented by 40 divs and would at least double by the end of the war. The rus had 10,000 tanks across the entire front all the way back in mid 43 and less than that since. The allies would outnumber the sov in the air and ground in tanks and have roughly equal numbers in the armys in the field.
The allied arty guns were supplied with much much more arty shells. Making them more effective and lethal. In general the allies had more supply then the ger or rus allowing them to be more effective with simlar size forces. For example the allies had more gas and what avgas rus had was EXTREMLY dep on LL.
Plus thier was a combat eff factor. The rus had never measured up man for man with the outnumbered ger. The allies came much closer to the ger combat eff than the rus did.
One of the major factors concerning the rus was they had suffered huge losses 27mil people gone from thier pop over 4 years and they were in no shape for another war.
The allies also had 8000 tanks of all types in france by the end of aug this is represented by 40 divs and would at least double by the end of the war. The rus had 10,000 tanks across the entire front all the way back in mid 43 and less than that since. The allies would outnumber the sov in the air and ground in tanks and have roughly equal numbers in the armys in the field.
The allied arty guns were supplied with much much more arty shells. Making them more effective and lethal. In general the allies had more supply then the ger or rus allowing them to be more effective with simlar size forces. For example the allies had more gas and what avgas rus had was EXTREMLY dep on LL.
Plus thier was a combat eff factor. The rus had never measured up man for man with the outnumbered ger. The allies came much closer to the ger combat eff than the rus did.
One of the major factors concerning the rus was they had suffered huge losses 27mil people gone from thier pop over 4 years and they were in no shape for another war.
Kunikov wrote:The Red Army numbered around 11 million men in total, front line and rear area troops and that is the Red Army that guarded all borders of the Soviet Union as well. I could look it up, but these debates are worthless, I'd guess around at least 5-6 million faced the Western allies on the entire front.
The rus army on the front aginst the ger numbered at least 6 mil from mid 43 onwards.
The euopean weastern allied numbers would be reinforced by the addition of 50 extra div freed up from the pacifc essetially increasing the number of troops by 50%. Most of these div would be inf and the tank increase would be much smaller. This could happen after japan surrered or even before if they just withdrew them for a time.
The allies might have 140 CW and US div with a few french ones thrown in. If more french ones were mobilized and perhaps even the ger ones remobilized it could increase even more. Remember that the west got 7.5 mil ger pows which was 3 times wht the rus had allowing them to use a much bigger, happier to work for them force.
The western div were bigger than the rus divs. More plentiful equiped and much, much, bettter supplied.
To give a scale of the level of losses the US suffered 400,000 dead in the mil in all braches theatres and causes. The lack of damage to the homeland also would have made the pop loss negliable. The rus pop loss was 65 times greater than the US losses.
The allies might have 140 CW and US div with a few french ones thrown in. If more french ones were mobilized and perhaps even the ger ones remobilized it could increase even more. Remember that the west got 7.5 mil ger pows which was 3 times wht the rus had allowing them to use a much bigger, happier to work for them force.
The western div were bigger than the rus divs. More plentiful equiped and much, much, bettter supplied.
To give a scale of the level of losses the US suffered 400,000 dead in the mil in all braches theatres and causes. The lack of damage to the homeland also would have made the pop loss negliable. The rus pop loss was 65 times greater than the US losses.
Re: Russians vs. western allies 1945...
Soviets would lose ! Why? - there was no moro huge human resources - in 1945 17-years old youth was mobilized to the Red Army. Aprox. 90% of aviation fuel used by Soviet from 1943 was lend-lease. No lend-lease aviation fuel - no operational Soviet air force. Aprox. 50% of powder and explosives were lend-lease, at least from 1944. No lend-lease - soviet ammunition production fall dawn in half. Try to imagine the result ...
Re: Russians vs. western allies 1945...
In mid 1945 Churchill asked his generals what it would take for the Soviet Army to reach the English Channel.
The answer he received? "Shoes"
The answer he received? "Shoes"