Soviet Separate Coastal Army at Odessa

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Victor
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Soviet Separate Coastal Army at Odessa

Postby Victor » 02 Jan 2005 11:13

I am interested in the exact OoB of the Soviet Separate Coastal Army during the battle of Odessa in August-October 1941.
Here is what I managed to find out so far, but I am not really sure of its accuracy.

Initially in August 1941:
25th Rifle Division
95th Rifle Divisions
9th Cavalry Division (or was it the 2nd?)
421st Marine Division (or was it a rifle division?)
54th Rifle Regiment
an NKVD Regiment

Reinforcements
16 September: 157th Rifle Division
21/22 September: 3rd Marine Brigade

Also, when was this army created?

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Andy H
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Postby Andy H » 02 Jan 2005 11:40

My information comes from "The Red Army OoB in the Great Patriotic War" by Poirer & Conner

The Coastal Army was formed in July 1941

It confirms that the 25th & 95th Rifle were part of the Army in July'41

It states that the 421st Rifle Division was raised in Odessa MD from Home Guard units in the Oct of '41. It also mentions that the 1 Naval Infantry Regiment merged with the Division: the unit becoming 1330 Rifle Regiment

The 157th Rifle Division did join as you stated in September

The 9th Cavalry it has as being part of 2nd Cavalry Corps (along with 5th & 72nd Cavalry Divisions) within 9th Indep Army Odessa MD as of June'41. Then this Corp was in Mogilev Podolsk in a shock group with 2Mech & 48 Rifle Corps as of July'41. Then in the August the Cavalry Corps is operating with 9th & 18th Armies along the Ingulets river in the August '41. Next re-appearing near Moscow in November'41

Andy H

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Coastal Army 8-10/1941

Postby kosta » 02 Jan 2005 22:36

Hello Victor!!
This is from " Boeboi Sostav Soviet Army 1941-1945 "

8/41-14th RC-25,95th RDs
1st Odessa KD
82nd UR
265th CArt. Rgt
26th,175th,504th AA Btls.
69th Fgt. Air Rgt.

9/41- 25th,95th,421st RDs
2nd KD
82nd UR
265th CArt. Rgt.
26th AA Btl
15th PVO BR.

10/41-25th,95th,157th,421st RDs
2nd KD
3rd Naval Rgt.
265th CArt. Rgt.
1 Btl. of a Mortar Rgt.
15th PVO BR.
73rd AA Rgt.
26th AA Btl.
69th Fgt. Air Rgt.
21st,22nd,23rd,24th Tank Btls.


** these are all on the 1st of each month!!

Kosta

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Victor
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Postby Victor » 03 Jan 2005 09:38

Thanks kosta! I was counting on your reply. A couple of questions though.
What does KD mean?
Is the 82 UR the 82nd Fortified Region "Tiraspol"?

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Coastal Army

Postby kosta » 03 Jan 2005 17:15

Hello Victor!!

The "kd" means cavalry division, I'm sorry but sometimes I do things like that, in Russian cd=
rifle division and kd cavalry division!! I have to be more carefull when I'm thinking in Russian but writing in English!! I still think that kd looks better than cd!!
Also yes the 82nd UR is the Tiraspol Fortified Region, I don't know why the 83rd UR wasn't a part of this Group, instead it was in South Front Reserve!!

If you need any mor info just let me know!!

Thanks Kosta

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Postby Victor » 03 Jan 2005 20:50

Well, I do have further questions.
I wasn't able to find the 2nd Cavalry Division in the OoB of the Soviet border fronts on 22 June 1941. Was it raised locally?

When exactly in July was the Separate Coastal Army formed?

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Coastal Army

Postby kosta » 03 Jan 2005 21:18

Hello Victor!!
No problem!!
7/6/1941 South Front establishes Coastal Army Group
7/19/1941 it's name is changed into Coastal Army
Whats the difference??
I think that the group only had control over the land defences of Odessa, while the Army had total control over all forces!! But I am not positive??

The 1st Odessa volunteer's KD was created from militia units.
This was changed into the 2nd KD, not to confuse with the 1st KD.
11/1941 it was again changed into the 2nd RD, it was dismounted anyway in Odessa!!

I have posted a lot on the Crimea in the Feldgrau Forum!!
If you need anything else just ask!!

Thanks Kosta

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Postby Victor » 04 Jan 2005 08:34

Thanks. What the troops would a Fortified Region consist of and how many were they? I suspect some infantry with many machine-guns and pioneers. Was it comparable to a regiment in size?

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URs

Postby kosta » 05 Jan 2005 01:23

Hello Victor!!

The Tiraspol UR- 259kms in length,4kms in depth,318 pillboxes,3 Art.MGun Btls
The Rybnitsa UR-120kms in length,3kms in depth,236 pillboxes,3 Art.MGun Btls
The Mogilev Yampolsk UR-140kms in length,4kms in depth,276 pillboxes,2 Art.MGun Btls
The Kamenets Podolsk UR-60kms in length,3-5kms in depth,158 pillboxes,3 Art.MGun Btls

Their strengths vary from 2-3,000 men depending on # of Btls
They were intended to be augmented with RDs during combat to stiffen the forts

Thanks Kosta

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Postby Victor » 05 Jan 2005 10:04

Thanks. Do you have the number of Sovist troops in Odessa on 1 October 1941, when it seams that the Coastal army was the most numerous?

I am also interested in the fortifications around the city. From what I could tell there were 3 lines of defense: the first line was 80 km long and situated some 25-30 km from the city. The second and main line of defense was situated 6-8 km from the city and was about 30 km long. The third and last line of defense was organized inside the city itself. Do you have any numbers on pillboxes, MG nests etc?

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Coastal Army

Postby kosta » 06 Jan 2005 17:36

Hi Victor
I don't have too much information in this area!
As far as the strength of the Odessa Garrison is concerned, there is not much out there, what I do have is from "Defence of Odessa" by Krylov, he mentions between 80-90,000 men at any given time. Yes there were more units in the Garrison at the end, but they were way understrength. They were losing as fast as replacing manpower. He also mentions some 300,000 people still in the city during the siege, with no power or water. As far as the defences you know as much as I do! All I have is what I can deduce from many maps of the Battle. I think you also must have these maps, only one is detailed enough to give you a decent amount of information on the fortifications, all were new and improvised, other than the ones facing the Sea. Victor I was surprised at the many counter attacks of the Garrison, but also in the fierce Romanian prosecution of their attacks. The Germans grossly do a disservice to their Allies, in their portrayal, they make it out to be that they would have been better off without them!! How biased, false and crazy!!

BTW if you need any specific OOB during any part of 1941-1945 for the RKKA, just let me know, I would be glad to help, I wish all the moderators were as nice as you!!

Thanks Kosta

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Victor
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Postby Victor » 06 Jan 2005 23:40

I am very interested in the subject and so far have read only the Romanian view on it and that of the VVS (from Black Cross/Red Star). Glantz, unfortunately doesn't go into detail with it as there were no major encirclements with mechanized forces, no tank battles, just WWI artillery bombardments and assaults. I am trying to build a more accurate picture of the battle from the Soviet side to include in teh article on Odessa on my website and you have been very helpful.

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Defence of Odessa

Postby kosta » 07 Jan 2005 01:53

Hello Victor
Here is some more information, now that I kind of know what you are trying to accomplish.
Maritime Army Group Com. - Chibisov from 7/19/41 to end of 9/41
he replaced Cherevichenko as Odessa MD Com.
and took over the newly formed Coastal Army
** again I am finding duel use of Maritime Army Group and Coastal Army??

This Army was formed from the 3 left flank divisions of 9th Army,25th,150th,51st RDs
all were under the 14th RC

7/25/41 the Army was defending the eastern bank of the Dniester River , Dubosari to
Tiraspol. As the South Front was forced to withdraw eastward they split into 2 groups the 9th
Army, which took the 51st&150th RDs, and the Coastal Army w/ 25th&95 RDs. There is mention of a sharp skirmish between 95thRD and 35th Rom. Infantry Division. The 35th was beaten badly, I don't know Victor you would know more about this engagement than I would?
The 30thMtRD was also to be part of the CA but it was seperated from it in the fighting!
8/10 Odessa is cut off
8/15 8 Romanian Divisions-3rd,7th,11th,15th,25th IDs,1st Grds,!st Border Grds were against
Coastal Army.
8/20 35,000 men in CA with 303 guns and 19 planes(at Odessa only)
8/25 Odessa is in range of enemy artillery
5,000 men arrive from Novorossiysk as reinforcements
some adhoc elements are combined into 421st RD

The com. of the Maritime Army Group was Sofronov 7/31/41 to 10/5/41
I am assuming that he was 14th RC com.?

** all of this is from a memoir of Krylov,he was it's CofS, confusing!

From another source their is no mention of Chibisov but the have this:
7/31/41 to 10/5/41 Sofronov
10/5/41 to 7/7/42 Petrov in Sevastopol
To help explain it when Cherivichenko left, as Odessa MD com. to com. 9th Army, he was replaced by Chibisov. And it is possible that the MD com. had the final say in the Coastal Army, even though Sofronov was it's only com!

Victor I have a ton of detailed material on the South Front, if you give me a few days I will put it together in some order, it's all in Russian, and give you the RKKA side of the story!

Thanks Kosta

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Postby Victor » 07 Jan 2005 13:38

The 35th Reserve Division suffered a defeat on 9 July 1941. For 25 July I only found mentions of following retreating Soviet units. Nothing out of the ordinary. At the end of July it was sent back home and soon after that it was disbanded. It was the only reserve division that served during the war and didn't do a great job.

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Coastal Army

Postby kosta » 14 Jan 2005 03:12

Hey Victor
I have looked through all of the documents that I have on the Southern Front.
There is a problem, they only show the units in the vicinity of Odessa, untill the Independent Coastal Army was formed, after that they only cover the units in the SFront Armies. There isn't anything that would be useful to you! I am sorry, that Army was directly under the Stavka, and I don't have anything on these independent armies. If there is something else that you need I will try and help.

Thanks Kosta


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