Hello BIGpanzer!
I don't know exactly what kind of engine was installed in the Romanian Komsomolets tankettes. What I know is that it was a ford engine. During ww2, there was a ford factory in Romania, "Atelierele Ford Bucureşti", where several types of Ford trucks where assembled. The most widespread type was the Ford 4/2 3 ton truck. You can find out more info about Romanian trucks (including pictures), here http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php ... 1404&st=45. Maybe this can help you identify the engine type they used. I am no expert in this field so I can help you no more.
BTW, the refurbished Komsomolets tankettes were recaptured by the Russian in the summer of 1944. Do you know what happened to them? Were they used by the Red Army on the front? Does any of hem survive?
Regards.
*Soviet artillery prime movers of WWII - some info
Hi, SiG I!
Thanks a lot for the link to the very interesting Romanian site
!
As for the type of "Ford" engines, which were installed by Romanians into captured Soviet T-20s instead the original Soviet GAZ-M engines, I don`t have an info also. But I will try to find it.
As for your question about recaptured T-20s - I think such info is extremelly hard to find. I can assume that small amount of such modified by Romanians T-20s were recaptured by Soviet Army in summer 1944 and were used again as light artillery prime movers without any distinction in their designations. What I know that T-20s were used till the end of WWII by Soviet infantry and artillery units, but because of their big losses (especially in 1941) their amount decreased every year (7780 were produced in 1937-1941, only 1662 were used in September 1942, 1048 were used in January 1943). T-20s were used also for towing more heavy AA and divisional artillery, which caused their overload. But "Komsomolets" needed car spare parts mainly, which was the great advantage of the construction for the war time. Also I found an info that ventilator of the cooling system of T-20 took the air from the holes above the caterpillars which caused the entry of the dust inside the engine during summers, so late modifications were equipped with air intake between seat backs for the artillery crew.
AFAIK only one T-20 "Komsomolets" is preserved in Russia (WWII Museum, Moscow) - http://www.battlefield.ru/tanks/komsomo ... som_11.jpg (was found in 1994 in bog near Smolensk)
and two also captured T-20s are preserved in Finland (Finnish Army had 56 T-20s in 1941 and 184 in 1943, some were used till 1961 by the Finnish Army, two are preserved at Parola Armored Museum and Hameenlinna Artillery Museum, correspondingly) -
http://www.andreaslarka.net/ps755038/75503801.jpg (Parola)
http://bronetehnika.narod.ru/komsomolec/komsom_35.jpg (Hameenlinna)
Best regards, BIGpanzer
Thanks a lot for the link to the very interesting Romanian site
!Did Romanian Army used "Komsomolets" as tankette? Because it was light artillery prime mover, based on small amphibious tank T-38 chassis, not tankette, of course. But as I wrote before T-20s were used also as tankettes for infantry support during the heavy battles of summer 1941 as they were armored (7-10 mm) and armed with 7.62 mm MG, also they were used for combat support role by Soviet forest guerillas ( http://www.chamtec.com/materials/koms01.jpg ).SiG I wrote:
I don't know exactly what kind of engine was installed in the Romanian Komsomolets tankettes.
As for the type of "Ford" engines, which were installed by Romanians into captured Soviet T-20s instead the original Soviet GAZ-M engines, I don`t have an info also. But I will try to find it.
As for your question about recaptured T-20s - I think such info is extremelly hard to find. I can assume that small amount of such modified by Romanians T-20s were recaptured by Soviet Army in summer 1944 and were used again as light artillery prime movers without any distinction in their designations. What I know that T-20s were used till the end of WWII by Soviet infantry and artillery units, but because of their big losses (especially in 1941) their amount decreased every year (7780 were produced in 1937-1941, only 1662 were used in September 1942, 1048 were used in January 1943). T-20s were used also for towing more heavy AA and divisional artillery, which caused their overload. But "Komsomolets" needed car spare parts mainly, which was the great advantage of the construction for the war time. Also I found an info that ventilator of the cooling system of T-20 took the air from the holes above the caterpillars which caused the entry of the dust inside the engine during summers, so late modifications were equipped with air intake between seat backs for the artillery crew.
AFAIK only one T-20 "Komsomolets" is preserved in Russia (WWII Museum, Moscow) - http://www.battlefield.ru/tanks/komsomo ... som_11.jpg (was found in 1994 in bog near Smolensk)
and two also captured T-20s are preserved in Finland (Finnish Army had 56 T-20s in 1941 and 184 in 1943, some were used till 1961 by the Finnish Army, two are preserved at Parola Armored Museum and Hameenlinna Artillery Museum, correspondingly) -
http://www.andreaslarka.net/ps755038/75503801.jpg (Parola)
http://bronetehnika.narod.ru/komsomolec/komsom_35.jpg (Hameenlinna)
Best regards, BIGpanzer
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SiG I
- Member
- Posts: 605
- Joined: 28 Jan 2005, 19:37
- Location: Romania, a rich country with hardworking people
Sorry for causing confusion. The Komsomolets was only used as a tractor in the Romanian army AFAIK. I wrote "tankette" because that's what it looks like.BIGpanzer wrote:Did Romanian Army used "Komsomolets" as tankette? Because it was light artillery prime mover, based on small amphibious tank T-38 chassis, not tankette, of course. But as I wrote before T-20s were used also as tankettes for infantry support during the heavy battles of summer 1941 as they were armored (7-10 mm) and armed with 7.62 mm MG, also they were used for combat support role by Soviet forest guerillas ( http://www.chamtec.com/materials/koms01.jpg ).SiG I wrote:
I don't know exactly what kind of engine was installed in the Romanian Komsomolets tankettes.
Good luck with further research!
Hello, SiG I!
What I found today about "Komsomolets" in Romanian service:
Romania captured those Soviet light armored prime movers during the initial stages of invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941, followed by a few more in the first half of 1942. In November 1942 Romanian Army had 36 such captured prime movers. They were quite reliable, there were enough car spare parts for them and they were serviced by plants both in captured Soviet Odessa (by re-opened tractor plant) and Romania.
Beginning in the summer of 1943, surviving T-20s were converted by Romania into Senileta Ford Rusesc de Captura Tractor. By the way, what does the word "Senileta" exactly mean on Romanian?
Since the beginning of 1944 these tractors were adapted in order to serve as towing vehicles for 5cm PaK-38 AT-guns, thereby replacing Renault UE "Chenillette" and "Malaxa" tracked carriers lost in combats.
This conversion being quite simple, involving the addition of a new hook on the "Komsomolets" back as well as some prime movers (not all, probably!) were equipped with a Romanian license-copies of Ford truck engines. 34 were used by Romanian Army - 12 each with the 5th and 14th Infantry Divisions, 6 with the 1st Armoured Division, and the last 4, issued only in August 1944, with the 5th Cavalry Division.
After August 23, 1944, when Romania surrendered, Soviet Army collected all captured by Romanians Soviet equipment (including prime movers T-20, but the majority of Romanian "Komsomolets" were lost during the summer 1944 on Moldavian Front) and equipped with them the Romanian tank division "Tudor Vladimirescu" and Romanian mechanized division "Horia, Closca Si Crisan" (exact translation, please). Both divisions were staffed by Romanian prisoners taken in Stalingrad.
So Soviet Army almost didn`t use the recaptured T-20s again, but gave them to Romania.
What I found today about "Komsomolets" in Romanian service:
Romania captured those Soviet light armored prime movers during the initial stages of invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941, followed by a few more in the first half of 1942. In November 1942 Romanian Army had 36 such captured prime movers. They were quite reliable, there were enough car spare parts for them and they were serviced by plants both in captured Soviet Odessa (by re-opened tractor plant) and Romania.
Beginning in the summer of 1943, surviving T-20s were converted by Romania into Senileta Ford Rusesc de Captura Tractor. By the way, what does the word "Senileta" exactly mean on Romanian?
Since the beginning of 1944 these tractors were adapted in order to serve as towing vehicles for 5cm PaK-38 AT-guns, thereby replacing Renault UE "Chenillette" and "Malaxa" tracked carriers lost in combats.
This conversion being quite simple, involving the addition of a new hook on the "Komsomolets" back as well as some prime movers (not all, probably!) were equipped with a Romanian license-copies of Ford truck engines. 34 were used by Romanian Army - 12 each with the 5th and 14th Infantry Divisions, 6 with the 1st Armoured Division, and the last 4, issued only in August 1944, with the 5th Cavalry Division.
After August 23, 1944, when Romania surrendered, Soviet Army collected all captured by Romanians Soviet equipment (including prime movers T-20, but the majority of Romanian "Komsomolets" were lost during the summer 1944 on Moldavian Front) and equipped with them the Romanian tank division "Tudor Vladimirescu" and Romanian mechanized division "Horia, Closca Si Crisan" (exact translation, please). Both divisions were staffed by Romanian prisoners taken in Stalingrad.
So Soviet Army almost didn`t use the recaptured T-20s again, but gave them to Romania.
Last edited by BIGpanzer on 03 Dec 2005, 20:52, edited 1 time in total.
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SiG I
- Member
- Posts: 605
- Joined: 28 Jan 2005, 19:37
- Location: Romania, a rich country with hardworking people
Şeniletă is the Romanian spelling of the french Chenilette. It describes a vehicle with şenile (tracks), that is, a tracked vehicle.By the way, what does the word "Senileta" exactly mean on Romanian?
Regarding your other questions, the two Romania divisions in the Soviet army were named after leaders of social movements from Romanian history:
Tudor Vladimirescu led a short lived nationalistic revolution in Valahia in 1821.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tudor_Vladimirescu
Horea, Cloşca and Crişan were the leaders of a peasant uprising in the area of the Apuseni mountains, Transylvania (1784-85).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolt_of_ ... ri%C5%9Fan
Regards,
SiG I
Thanks a lot for the info, very interesting!
Here is the photo I`ve just found of German captured T-20 "Komsomolets" with awning for artillery crew and ammunition:
http://www.russianwarrior.com/1930vecindex_T20.htm The year was probably, 1941. Note the rear box for spare parts, reserve track roller and towing device of Soviet type (the last one was replaced by Romanians on Senileta Ford Rusesc de Captura Tractor to allow the towing of PaK-38 AT-gun).
Wehrmacht used trophy T-20s under the designation l.gp.Art.S.630(r) - http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/k/komso ... ydeww2.jpg
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/k/komso ... ydeww2.jpg
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/k/komso ... ydeww2.jpg
Finland also used near 200 captured T-20 "Komsomolets" during the war: http://ofp.bombsquad.org/fww2/kuvat/t20.jpg
Also I found a good technical blueprints of T-20: http://rkkaww2.armchairgeneral.com/gall ... ts_bp2.jpg
http://armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/BeforeWWII/T20/t20_1.gif
Car engine GAZ-M was used together with demultiplicator from GAZ-AAA three-axis truck, which gave T-20 the possibility to have a minimum towing speed 2-2.5 km/h (could tow up to 3 t) and maximal road transport speed 47-50 km/h.
http://www.battlefield.ru/tanks/komsomo ... som_02.jpg (T-20s, towed 76.2mm regimental guns mod.1927; preWWII military parade, Moscow)
Regards, BIGpanzer
Here is the photo I`ve just found of German captured T-20 "Komsomolets" with awning for artillery crew and ammunition:
http://www.russianwarrior.com/1930vecindex_T20.htm The year was probably, 1941. Note the rear box for spare parts, reserve track roller and towing device of Soviet type (the last one was replaced by Romanians on Senileta Ford Rusesc de Captura Tractor to allow the towing of PaK-38 AT-gun).
Wehrmacht used trophy T-20s under the designation l.gp.Art.S.630(r) - http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/k/komso ... ydeww2.jpg
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/k/komso ... ydeww2.jpg
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/k/komso ... ydeww2.jpg
Finland also used near 200 captured T-20 "Komsomolets" during the war: http://ofp.bombsquad.org/fww2/kuvat/t20.jpg
Also I found a good technical blueprints of T-20: http://rkkaww2.armchairgeneral.com/gall ... ts_bp2.jpg
http://armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/BeforeWWII/T20/t20_1.gif
Car engine GAZ-M was used together with demultiplicator from GAZ-AAA three-axis truck, which gave T-20 the possibility to have a minimum towing speed 2-2.5 km/h (could tow up to 3 t) and maximal road transport speed 47-50 km/h.
http://www.battlefield.ru/tanks/komsomo ... som_02.jpg (T-20s, towed 76.2mm regimental guns mod.1927; preWWII military parade, Moscow)
Regards, BIGpanzer
Last edited by BIGpanzer on 04 Dec 2005, 23:09, edited 1 time in total.
Interesting, what does the abbreviation Ps.755-8 mean? - http://www.battlefield.ru/tanks/komsomo ... som_04.jpg
This is a captured by the Germans "Komsomolets", probably......
This is a captured by the Germans "Komsomolets", probably......
Re: *Soviet artillery prime movers of WWII - some info
It means Panssarivaunu, i.e. "armoured vehicle" . The picture depicts a Finnish vehicle assigned to the tank troops, photographed on October 1943 in Varkaus at the local Panssarikeskus (Armour Center). The Ps registration numbers were adopted in 1943 and are still in use; the three digits identify the type of vehicle, block from 751 to 799 were reserved to armoured tractors. In 1978, new blocks of three digit numbers were added to identify the un-armoured artillery tractors and tank transporters of Soviet origin that were transferred from SA motor vehicles register to the PS armoured troops register.
Last edited by ML59 on 03 Feb 2013, 17:07, edited 1 time in total.
Re:
The vehicle depicted is not a SU-45 but a Khtz-16 armoured STZ-3 tractor made by the Kharkov Tractors Factory in autumn of 1941. A total of 100 armour kits were produced but only about 50-60 vehicles were completed and all of them were lost during the defense of Kharkov in october 1941. There was a plan to produce 809 vehicles of this type but due to war developments it was never implemented.Juha Hujanen wrote:According the Pekka Kantakoski book Punaiset Panssarit.Puna-Armeijan Panssarijoukot 1918-1945 this is SU-45.
Another unusual vehicle was the so called "Odessa terror Tank" or, in Russian, NI "Na Ispug". It was based on the ubiquitous STZ-5 tractor, protected by improvised armour plates made by the local October Revolution Factory. Only 55 NI tanks were built, mostly equipped with T-26 model 1931 machine gun turrets; a few were equipped with 20 mm , 37 mm or even 45 mm anti-tank guns. All of them were lost during the siege of Odessa and subsequent battles but at least one wreckage survived the war and was later re-furbished (quite crudely and incorrectly) to be displayed at the Great Patriotic War museum in Kiev.