Transport ships of USSR in 1941-1945 - any info!!

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Juha Tompuri
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Re: Large timber ships became military transports during WWI

#346

Post by Juha Tompuri » 03 May 2006, 22:13

BIGpanzer 200605 wrote: 13. “Ivan Papanin” (military transport No. 505) – was sunk on 29 August 1941 (Finnish Gulf, Baltic Sea) during the convoy navigation from Tallinn. The ship transported more than 3000 soldiers and 200 trucks. It was attacked by German bombers and was heavily damaged by two bombs. Near 70 men were killed in fire (including the captain), but the ship could reach the shore and more than 2500 soldiers were rescued. Next day the damaged and burnt ship sank.
Here on the left a pic of what I believe is I. Papanin sunken at the shore of Suursaari (Hogland/Gogland island)
The ship on the right,also sunken at the shore of Suursaari (260542 was found to have an unexplosed torpedo stuck to her side) is unknown to me.

Regards, Juha
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papanin.1.JPG
Pics from the book: Laivat Puuta miehet Rautaa, by Pirhonen, Peuranheimo and Killinen
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BIGpanzer
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#347

Post by BIGpanzer » 03 May 2006, 23:47

Thanks, dear Juha for the interesting photos! There are not so many photos of Soviet-built civil transport ships of WWII-period.

As for "Ivan Papanin" (VT-505) - the heavily damaged by bombs and burnt ship was ran aground by its crew to rescue the soldiers on board (2500 were saved), next day the abandoned ship was drifted by strong wind into the sea and sank by German bombers. The damaged by bombs stern is visible on the photo. The ship on the photo looks in some details (dimensions, topsides, stern shape) similar to "Ivan Papanin" (large timber ship of "Volgoles"-type, 8130 t), but I don't see the nose, central and sternmost cargo derricks (probably, destroyed by bomb explosions as well as foremast derricks), also those timber ships didn't had any mast between central derrick and stern (probably, some artifact) as well as high chimney (they were diesel ships with short chimney - one "chimney"-like structure is Gogland lighthouse but what is the another one?!)

As for the ship on the right photo - it could be (only my supposition!) steamer "Sauliai" (VT-550, 2500 t cargo capacity) from Lithuanian State Shipping Company. That ship made navigation (convoy No 2) from Tallinn, 29.08.1941 it was damaged by direct bomb hit off Rodsher island, but could reach Gogland island with the help of mine-sweeper and rescue vessel. All soldiers with ammunition, evacuated from Tallinn by VT-550, successfully landed. Abandoned ship was damaged by German bombers 05.09.1941 and water-logged. In November-December 1941 the ship was used as coal fueler for Soviet ships, making runs to Hango. 13.06.1942 the immovable ship was torpedoed by Soviet submarine "M-97" - so the data was differ from 26.05.1942 but it could be some mistakes in our sources.

I've found the description of all Soviet ship losses near Gogland island - "Sauliai" looks the most correct among them, but I am not sure as I've already mentioned.


PS. Almost all Soviet mobilized transport ships which were reequipped into military transports (VT with number) for Baltic Sea in summer 1941 by Kanoner dockyard in Leningrad were armed with several AA guns and MGs, camouflaged and protected by sandbags alongside/armor plates on radio house and command bridge.
Regards, BP


mjbollinger
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Sauliai

#348

Post by mjbollinger » 04 May 2006, 11:51

I have photos of most of these ships at home and will look through them when I return to help with identification.

MB

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BIGpanzer
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#349

Post by BIGpanzer » 04 May 2006, 15:14

Ok, thats will be interesting! I am not completely sure about "Sauliai" (right photo), but seems to be.
Marty, have you seen my recent letter about Soviet ship diesels - I had several notes and questions there :wink:

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Diesels

#350

Post by mjbollinger » 04 May 2006, 15:34

Yes, BP. I saw the email. I will respond when I get home (current at Paris airport waiting to board flight).

Do you have a copy of Spassky's series of books on Russian shipbuilding history?

MB

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#351

Post by BIGpanzer » 04 May 2006, 16:01

Ok, Marty! Have a nice flight! :wink:
As for Spassky's books - I don't have them at home unfortunately, but one good friend of mine had 5 volumes of "History of Native (Russian) Shipbuilding" by Spassky (1994), that books cover the period from IX c. to 1991 as far as I remember.

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Not a good flight

#352

Post by mjbollinger » 08 May 2006, 18:59

Picked up food poisoning from an Air France meal onboard. Will be out of action for several more days.

MB

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Michael Emrys
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Re: Not a good flight

#353

Post by Michael Emrys » 08 May 2006, 23:21

mjbollinger wrote:Picked up food poisoning from an Air France meal onboard. Will be out of action for several more days.
The reputation of French cooking takes a hit. Sorry to hear that you are unwell. Hope you make an early recovery.

Michael

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#354

Post by BIGpanzer » 10 May 2006, 23:21

I also hope that Marty will be OK very soon :wink:

BP

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Recovered!

#355

Post by mjbollinger » 12 May 2006, 03:47

Many thanks, BP and Michael.

I am well. Almost fully recovered. And now I'm 8 pounds lighter thanks to the "Air France 5-day Samonella Diet!"

Catching up on work and will be back in touch in a day or so.

Many thanks for your kind words.

Marty

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#356

Post by BIGpanzer » 14 May 2006, 21:27

Hello, Marty!
Is everything OK with you at the moment?

Please, post your info about Soviet-built Tiurok/Kuibyshev-class & Sikhali-class ships, when you have time and possibility.

I've got today the letter from my good Russian colleague from St.Petersburg. As he knows my small interest in Soviet merchant navy of WWII period he informs me also that he saw the excellent book "The tragedies of the Gulf of Finland" by Prof. A.V. Platonov (on Russian, Eksmo-press, 2005, 672 pages, ISBN: 5699119582) in all city book stores. That book describes in all possible details the notorious Soviet convoys in Baltic, 1941 (all involved ships with their descriptions, many photos, extremelly detailed color maps with the wrecks of all Soviet ships from convoys Tallinn-Kronshtadt, detailed descriptions (minute-by-minute) of Soviet convoy navigations in the Gulf of Finland in 1941).
The very hard history of Soviet Baltic Sea Navy in 1941, which could survive in Kronshtadt under massive attacks of German aviation (quite many historians think that Kronshtadt island was bombed more stronger than Dresden or Hiroshima), evacuated garrison from Hango naval base in Finland and survived terrible winter blockade of Leningrad, is described also.

I think this will be very interesting for you also, I found the following link:
http://slovobook.ru/newversion/books/47511.jpg
http://slovobook.ru/newversion/look.php?n_base=47511

http://www.eastview.com/xq/ASP/sku=A208 ... roduct.asp (cost 38$)
http://www.allbookstores.com/book/56991 ... aliva.html


Regards, BP

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Tiurok / Kuibyshev

#357

Post by mjbollinger » 15 May 2006, 17:54

Hello BP,

Sorry for the delay. Still catching up. As mentioned earlier, I do not focus on the Caspian so my information on these ships is limited.

Here is what I have on the Tiurok / Kuibyshev class. Three ships were built for use in the Caspian

Size: 1,805 GRT / 1,750 DWT / 3,030 displacement
Dimensions: 83.10m x 12.54m x 5.04m; 4.6m draught fully loaded
Propulsion: 2x600 EHP diesels of MAN design, probably built by the shipyard providing 11.7 kts
Booms: 2 x 1.5 tons, 4 x 3 tons

Kuibyshev (Куйбышев)
WWII Registration: UCLG
Builder: Krasnoe Sormovo #112
Location: Nizhni Novgorod
Delivered in 1932 / 1805 GRT
Type: (D) Tiurok
Chronology:
1932 Launched as KUIBYSHEV (Kaspar) 4.32
1941 Participated in Iranian landing 25.08.41
1943 Went missing 29.10.43 south Baku at 39.37N-50.44E
… probably ordered as TIUROK


Azerbaidzhanets (Азербайджанец)
WWII Registration: ---
Builder: Krasnoe Sormovo #112
Location: Nizhni Novgorod
Delivered in 1932 / 1805 GRT
Type: (D) Tiurok
Chronology:
1932 Completed as AZERBAIDZHANETS (Kaspar) 04.32
1938 AZERBAIDZHANETS (Kasptanker)
1941 Participated in Iranian landing 25.08.41
1941 Transported evacuees Baku to Krasnovodsk late 41
197- Removed from service


Osetin (Осетин)
WWII Registration: ---
Builder: Krasnoe Sormovo #112
Location: Nizhni Novgorod
Delivered in 1932 / 1805 GRT
Type: (D) Tiurok
Chronology:
1932 Launched as CHECHENETS 04.32
1932 Completed as CHECHENETS (Kaspar)
???? OSETIN (Kaspar) before 1938
1941 Participated in Iranian landing 25.08.41
1943 Wrecked in explosion in Krasnovodsk port 24.10.43
Note: Schell register says completed in 1937


I have read that this design was adapted for use in seagoing ships, two of which were built by Sevastopol Marine Works. One was SERGO ORDZHONIKIDZE laid down and launched as RYBINSK and completed as SIKHALI and operating under that name until 1940. The other was SYZRAN laid down in 1931, laucnhed in 1932 and completed in 1936. This ship was then converted to a minelayer for WWII. These were, best I can tell, coal-burning steamships of about 1,187 GRT.

I have not been able to describe exactly how these two designs are related. I will look through my 1964 class register to check when I get a chance.

MB

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More Data Available

#358

Post by mjbollinger » 15 May 2006, 18:02

BP,

If you provide an email address, I will send you some tables on specs for all Soviet-built ships during the 1920s-1930s. This is in the form of some Word tables.

MB

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#359

Post by BIGpanzer » 16 May 2006, 09:19

Hello, Marty!
Thank you very much for the info.

As for me I know only the following about those cargo diesel ships for Caspian Sea:

1. "Kujbyshev" participated as transport ship in Soviet landing operation against Iran 24-25.08.1941 (soldiers and guns were transported from Soviet Baku to Iranian Hevi).
The ship disappeared 29.10.1943 in south Caspian. 28.10. the ship started navigation with Lend-Lease cargos on board from Noushehr (Iran) to Makhachkala (USSR) and didn't reach the port. The searches lasted till 09.11. Mast, wreckage and empty life-boats were found but nothing more. All crewmembers (41 men) were lost.

2. "Azerbaidzhanets" participated in landing operation against Iran as transport ship also.
I am not sure that "Azerbaidzhanets" was cargo ship similar to "Kujbyshev" as shipyard "Krasnoe Sormovo" built the following similar tankers for Caspian Sea: "Azerbaidzhanets", "Beriya", "Kaganovich". And you also mentioned that the ship was from "Kasptanker" Shipping Company.

3. "Osetin" participated in landing operation against Iran as transport ship also.
The ship was indeed of similar type with "Kujbyshev". The ship exploded 24.10.1943 in Krasnovodsk during unloading of gunpowder kegs (1914 tons) - nose part of the ship was destroyed, engines caught fire, ship crashed with steamer "Orlionok" nearby and went down. 14 men were killed, 6 were wounded.

PS. Marty, do you know the Russing spelling of "Tiurok"?

Regards, BP

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#360

Post by BIGpanzer » 16 May 2006, 11:53

I. I know also that ice-breaker of Astrakhan fishing port "Sergo Ordzhonikidze" (steamer, built by "Krasnoe Sormovo": laid down in 1936, launched in 1938, accepted 18.01.1941) was used in North Caspian for ice reconnaissance and meteorological observations as well as usual port ice-breaker. 08.08.1941 mobilized and reequipped into gun boat (since 02.10.1941 - in Caspian flotilla). 26.03.1943 - the ship was disarmed and returned back to Astrakhan fishing port. Scrapped in 1970s.
Specifications: 1220 t, 58.1x12.6x2.95 m, 1300 hp steam engine, 12.5 knots, 5600 miles, armament - 2x130mm + 4x45mm + 1x37mm + 4x12.7mm + 3x7.62mm, crew 117 men.
http://sovnavy-ww2.by.ru/gunboats/pic/sergo.jpg
http://sovnavy-ww2.by.ru/gunboats/pic/sergo_ld.jpg
Was that ship the same "Sergo Ordzhonikidze" you've mentioned - I don't know. But it served under the name "Sergo Ordzhonikidze" during WWII, not renamed as "Sikhali"; also the ship was built by "Krasnoe Sormovo" (Nizhnij Novgorod, Volga river) not by Sevastopol Marine Works (Sevastopol, Black Sea). And it was ice-breaker, not cargo ship. Probably, they were differ ships :roll:

Also diesel cargo ship "Sergo Ordzhonikidze" was used for transporting and testing new torpedos offshore Baku which were produced in Makhachkala and Krasnovodsk during WWII, also that ship with towed barges made navigations to Iranian Pehlevi for Lend-Lease supplies.

II. Minelayer (ex-cargo ship) "Syzran".
Specifications: 2625 t, 79.9x12x5.2 m, steam engine 700 hp, 6.5 knots, armament - 2x76.2mm + 4x45mm + 1x20mm + 2x12.7mm.
Laid down in 1931, launched 07.1932, accepted 01.1936. Since 08.07.1940 in Black Sea Navy. Under emergency repair 17.05.1941 - 23.06.1941. Mobilized again 07.07.1941, since 22.07.1941 - in Black Sea Navy.
I believe this is differ type (but with quite similar dimensions) than Caspian "Kujbyshev"/"Osetin".

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