It will be interesting to have the info about merchant ships, built in Imperial Russia, and participated in WWII.Marty wrote:
If the status of the pre-revolution Russian merchant fleet is of great interest,let me know.
Regards, BP
Transport ships of USSR in 1941-1945 - any info!!
Actually the original source mentions those ships as "ships abandoned in Soviet ports because of impossibility of their withdrawal because of technical condition and captured by enemy" so this is my mistake that I translated enemy as German forces only, Finns also captured ship.JT wrote about cargo steamer "Ilga" from Latvian Steamship Company
Actually captured by Finnish forces at Mantsi island at lake Ladoga 22th September 1941.
Sailed during the war as transport ship Aunus.
After the war, autumn 1944, the ship was given back to the USSR.
Source about abandoned in ports merchant ships - http://militera.lib.ru/h/mmf/06.html (table 3), according to the summarized table "Ilga" was captured 09.09.1941.
These sources
[ http://www.battleships.spb.ru/KO/0196/Ladoga.html
http://www.kolumbus.fi/leo.mirala/Sota/ ... -laiva.htm ]
support your info - Finns captured ex-Latvian "Ilga" [211 brt, built in 1925] 22.09.1941, which became "Aunus".
IIRC civil steamer under the name "Ilga" participated in unsuccessful [because of hurried organization, bad recon and insufficient amount of marine units consisted of unexperienced recruits from warships under construction and naval school] landing operations of Soviet Ladoga flotilla in July-August 1941 [Is. Mantsinsaari and Lunkulansaari] - http://www.warhistory.ru/warhistory_ru/ ... fe/map.jpg
Thanks for your information, mjbollinger.
But I'm not sure the two ships really match the fate of the German ship, for I suspect the two ships were lying in Georgia at the end of the civil war in 1921 (may be damaged or otherwise not able to move) and were only seized in 1922, whereas the German ship entered the Sovet port for trading purposes.
Kind regards
Klaus Günther
But I'm not sure the two ships really match the fate of the German ship, for I suspect the two ships were lying in Georgia at the end of the civil war in 1921 (may be damaged or otherwise not able to move) and were only seized in 1922, whereas the German ship entered the Sovet port for trading purposes.
Kind regards
Klaus Günther
Hi, kgvm!
As for captured/recaptured ships during Russian Revolution and Civil war [it should be noted that after those tragic events Red Russia had only <13% of merchant ships from Imperial times, many of them were more than 20 years old] - cargo-passenger steamer "Veliky Prince Aleksej" had an interesting fate. http://www.odin.tc/books/steam/img/56.jpg [preWWI photo]
The ship was built in UK in 1890 [1850 brt], performed runs Odessa-Batum before WWI, reequipped into mine-layer "Aleksej" during WWI. During Revolution and Civil war the steamer changed owners many times - bolsheviks, Germans, White forces, English and French interventionists. Since 1919 - belonged to Red merchant fleet, renamed as "Pestel" in 1920.
"Pestel" [Black Sea State Steamship Company] was torpedoed by U-20 in Turkish waters near port Trabzon 19.06.1944, came Soviet patrol boats could rescue 48 men but 18 men were lost including captain S.N. Kushnarenko who participated in rescue operation of his crew to the end.
Regards, BP
I could only find the following about this incident. Steamer "Oleg" [1377 grt, built in Germany in 1896, was purchased in Japan in 1911 by Russian steamship company of Keyserling, since 1916 - in Dobroflot] belonged to Far-Eastern administration of Sovtorgflot since 1924. In the beginning of February 1926 "Oleg" left Vladivostok with timber and laminaria in holds, performing run to Tianjin. The ship anchored in estuary of Haihe river and waited Chinese pilot but Chinese officers and sailors from cruiser came on board instead. All crewmembers were arrested, cargo assistant was isolated [and Chinese soldiers unloaded "Oleg" and put Japanese weapons in holds to organize international scandal against USSR]. Crewmembers passed through interrogations and humiliations, ship and cargos were confiscated [and didn't return back to USSR]. 38 crewmembers were sent to Vladivostok by rail in two months, but captain N.I. Vilchek was in Chinese prison [Mukden] 15 months more. As for documents - it is mentioned that communication letters of Soviet Ministry of Foreign Affairs with Chinese authorities with calls to free captain and ship are preserved in archives.kgvm wrote:
Another question:
the "Oleg" of 1896 was seized in 1927 by China in the mouth of the river Khaykhe (?, Babelfish-translation).
Are there additional informations about this seizure? Was "oleg" the only ship seized?
As for captured/recaptured ships during Russian Revolution and Civil war [it should be noted that after those tragic events Red Russia had only <13% of merchant ships from Imperial times, many of them were more than 20 years old] - cargo-passenger steamer "Veliky Prince Aleksej" had an interesting fate. http://www.odin.tc/books/steam/img/56.jpg [preWWI photo]
The ship was built in UK in 1890 [1850 brt], performed runs Odessa-Batum before WWI, reequipped into mine-layer "Aleksej" during WWI. During Revolution and Civil war the steamer changed owners many times - bolsheviks, Germans, White forces, English and French interventionists. Since 1919 - belonged to Red merchant fleet, renamed as "Pestel" in 1920.
"Pestel" [Black Sea State Steamship Company] was torpedoed by U-20 in Turkish waters near port Trabzon 19.06.1944, came Soviet patrol boats could rescue 48 men but 18 men were lost including captain S.N. Kushnarenko who participated in rescue operation of his crew to the end.
Regards, BP
Last edited by BIGpanzer on 05 Aug 2007, 15:38, edited 1 time in total.
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mjbollinger
- Member
- Posts: 238
- Joined: 14 Sep 2005, 02:23
- Location: Great Falls, VA
Hi BP,
I've tried to track the movements of the individual Soviet ships during the war as they were repositioned across the theaters. That is where my estimate of 80% came from. Those ships all redeployed to the Pacific for Lend Lease operations. After that point no Soviet ships operated on the North Atlantic routes. In part it was because they were too slow to keep up with the convoys, and in part it was because only Soviet ships could operate on the Pacific route, so they were especially valuable there. The remaining 20% of capacity continued to intra-Soviet operations in the Northern Theater, as you state.
As for Krasnyi Partizan, there has been a lot of confusion about the date. I've relied on the official Soviet post-war reports.
MB
I've tried to track the movements of the individual Soviet ships during the war as they were repositioned across the theaters. That is where my estimate of 80% came from. Those ships all redeployed to the Pacific for Lend Lease operations. After that point no Soviet ships operated on the North Atlantic routes. In part it was because they were too slow to keep up with the convoys, and in part it was because only Soviet ships could operate on the Pacific route, so they were especially valuable there. The remaining 20% of capacity continued to intra-Soviet operations in the Northern Theater, as you state.
As for Krasnyi Partizan, there has been a lot of confusion about the date. I've relied on the official Soviet post-war reports.
MB
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mjbollinger
- Member
- Posts: 238
- Joined: 14 Sep 2005, 02:23
- Location: Great Falls, VA
Klaus / BP:
Here's what I have on Oleg:
1896 Completed as PRONTO (Pronto A/S) 06.96
1902 PRONTO (A/S D/S)
1912 OLEG (Steam Nav. of Count HH Keyserling)
1916 OLEG (DF)
1922 OLEG (MSDV) Far East Navy 16.11.22
1922 OLEG (DF) demobilized 30.11.22
1924 OLEG (STF-DGK) 01.10.24
1926 Seized by Manchurian warships at Taku 03.26
1927 CHENGHAI (Chinese Government)
1931 HWEI AN (Hwei Hai SS. Co.)
1937 Foundered in the Yangtsze River 07.37
If you send me your email address, I'll forward my chapter on evolution of the merchant fleet from 1917-1926
MB
Here's what I have on Oleg:
1896 Completed as PRONTO (Pronto A/S) 06.96
1902 PRONTO (A/S D/S)
1912 OLEG (Steam Nav. of Count HH Keyserling)
1916 OLEG (DF)
1922 OLEG (MSDV) Far East Navy 16.11.22
1922 OLEG (DF) demobilized 30.11.22
1924 OLEG (STF-DGK) 01.10.24
1926 Seized by Manchurian warships at Taku 03.26
1927 CHENGHAI (Chinese Government)
1931 HWEI AN (Hwei Hai SS. Co.)
1937 Foundered in the Yangtsze River 07.37
If you send me your email address, I'll forward my chapter on evolution of the merchant fleet from 1917-1926
MB
Yes, I see. It should be noted that Soviet merchant fleet of Far East made a great job in necessary [especially Lend-Lease] cargos transportation, and the role of Pacific routes [to USA, Canada, S. America, Australia] was more important than Arctic convoys [but historians give special attention to Arctic convoys mainly because of their danger].Hi, Marty!
I've tried to track the movements of the individual Soviet ships during the war as they were repositioned across the theaters. That is where my estimate of 80% came from. Those ships all redeployed to the Pacific for Lend Lease operations. After that point no Soviet ships operated on the North Atlantic routes. In part it was because they were too slow to keep up with the convoys, and in part it was because only Soviet ships could operate on the Pacific route, so they were especially valuable there. The remaining 20% of capacity continued to intra-Soviet operations in the Northern Theater, as you state.
As for speed of Soviet ships during convoys - I see different info, this depends on ship type and its age/technical condition: some Soviet captains mentioned the intensive mode of steam engines/diesels of their ships during Arctic convoys, whereas another captains mentioned relatively low speed of some Allied transports which became especially dangerous during attacks of bombers against single ships. I've read that average speed of PQ-17 was 8 knots; for example max. speed of Soviet-built timber carriers was 9-10.5 knots, of cargo ships - till 13 knots, of tankers - 9.6-11.6 knots.
P.S. Thanks in advance for the promised info about Soviet ships 1917-1926. This will be very interesting! My AHF e-mail can be seen in my profile [[email protected]]
Regards, BP
I could find only generalized info about that complicated period [1917-1926] - that 1) decree about nationalization of steamship companies ans sea-going ships (947 ships) was accepted by Soviet of People's Commissars 23.01.1918, that 2) decree about transfer of departments of merchant shipping and merchant ports from People's Commissariat of trade and industry to Supreme Council of National Economy [VSNH, with Department of water service] was accepted 27.02.1918; this Department became Central office of water transport 18.05.1918 [Glavvod], that 3) merchant fleets of North, Black Sea and Caspian Seas were socialized till spring 1918 despite of strong opposition of ship owners and anti-bolsheviks [near 400 ROPIT ships of Black and Azov Sea became Soviet].
All Black & Azov seas merchant fleet became under White forces/Austro-Germans control since spring-summer 1918 [Sevastopol was captured, part of ships moved to Novorossisk where they were scuttled - 9 merchant ships; in November 1918 British and French forces left Odessa with 112 captured merchant ships] . The situation on Baltic was also very complicated in the beginning of 1918 - most part of Russian warships and merchant ships was in Helsingfors [12.03 and 05.04 two convoys moved to Kronshtadt despite of strong ice, the largest third convoy (~160 ships) faced more difficulties because of opposition of White Finnish/Russian forces, bad technical conditions of ships and lack of fuel and crewmembers (volunteers were sent from Petrograd) but it could successfully reach Petrograd/Kronshtadt 14-22.04.1918 - warships of Baltic navy and ~63 transports]. I also read that Lenin asked to increase the merchant trade with foreign countries, and several Red merchant ships made runs to Copenhagen, Stockholm and Goteborg until British Navy entered Baltic and stoped this.
In March 1918 Murmansk was captured, in April - Vladivostok, in August - Arkhangelsk; ~40% of tonnage of Imperial Russian merchant ships were hijacked abroad, 60 ships were lost during the Civil war.
The first sea navigation was performed in 1921 despite of absence of ships and ports in good technical connditions, there were not many experienced sailors [and especially, officers]. The trade agreement was signed with Great Britain 16.03.1921; Arkhangelsk, Odessa, Novorossisk were officially opened for foreign ships 11.04.1921. The first official Soviet documents about recording, registration and classification of merchant ships dated May 1921. All ports were given under control of People's Commissariat of communications with the Central office of sea transport [except Petrograd port belonged to People's Commissariat of foreign trade] in 1921. In June 1922 state steamship companies were established - Baltic, North, Black-Azov seas, Caspian. Lenin ordered to return back experienced sailors from army and navy to merchant fleet in June 1921. Arctic expeditions/navigations (Kara Sea) restarted in 1921. First Far-Eastern navigation was performed in the end of 1922 [steamer "Tungus"].
As for returning back of Russian ships, captured during the Civil war - I found only that the process began in 1922. Several such ships were stopped in Black Sea and Baltic ports and were given to merchant fleet of Soviet Republic; 2 ice-breakers/3 tugs/3 floating cranes came from Finland according to agreement; "Nizhny Novgorod", "Kolyma", "Vladimir" returned back from UK; "Kishinev", "Tomsi" and other steamers returmed back to Vladivostok since 11.1922.
Sea trade increased in Soviet Russia. Steamer "Dekabrist" performed run from Petrograd to Far East in 1923, several runs were made to China and Japan; "Elborus" performed the first run to Constantinople, "Karl Libkneht" transported timber to Netherlands. Central joint-stock steamship company "Sovtorgflot" was established in 1924.
The Soviet plan of native merchant shipbuilding was accepted in 1923 for 6 years. Central company "Sudotrest" was established as well as Central design office of sea shipbuilding in Leningrad. The first Soviet steamer "Tovarishch Krasin" [medium timber carrier, produced in large series] for Arkhangelsk-London line was launched 25.10.1925, the first cargo-passenger refrigerating ships for Leningrad-London line ["Andrei Zhdanov"-type] were laid down o1.05.1925, mail-cargo-passenger diesel ships "Gruzia" and "Krym" for Black Sea of very successful design were built in Germany according to Soviet project in 1926 [the four ships of the series were built in USSR], the first Soviet cargo-passenger steamer for Far-East of "Anadyr"-type was laid down in 1929 as well as so called Marseille refrigerators of "Volga"-type, cargo coastal motor schooners for Black/Azov seas of "Pioner"-type began to produce since 1928, the production of native medium and large tankers for Black and Caspian seas were ordered by Central oil company "Neftesindikat" in 1928.....
Regards, BP
All Black & Azov seas merchant fleet became under White forces/Austro-Germans control since spring-summer 1918 [Sevastopol was captured, part of ships moved to Novorossisk where they were scuttled - 9 merchant ships; in November 1918 British and French forces left Odessa with 112 captured merchant ships] . The situation on Baltic was also very complicated in the beginning of 1918 - most part of Russian warships and merchant ships was in Helsingfors [12.03 and 05.04 two convoys moved to Kronshtadt despite of strong ice, the largest third convoy (~160 ships) faced more difficulties because of opposition of White Finnish/Russian forces, bad technical conditions of ships and lack of fuel and crewmembers (volunteers were sent from Petrograd) but it could successfully reach Petrograd/Kronshtadt 14-22.04.1918 - warships of Baltic navy and ~63 transports]. I also read that Lenin asked to increase the merchant trade with foreign countries, and several Red merchant ships made runs to Copenhagen, Stockholm and Goteborg until British Navy entered Baltic and stoped this.
In March 1918 Murmansk was captured, in April - Vladivostok, in August - Arkhangelsk; ~40% of tonnage of Imperial Russian merchant ships were hijacked abroad, 60 ships were lost during the Civil war.
The first sea navigation was performed in 1921 despite of absence of ships and ports in good technical connditions, there were not many experienced sailors [and especially, officers]. The trade agreement was signed with Great Britain 16.03.1921; Arkhangelsk, Odessa, Novorossisk were officially opened for foreign ships 11.04.1921. The first official Soviet documents about recording, registration and classification of merchant ships dated May 1921. All ports were given under control of People's Commissariat of communications with the Central office of sea transport [except Petrograd port belonged to People's Commissariat of foreign trade] in 1921. In June 1922 state steamship companies were established - Baltic, North, Black-Azov seas, Caspian. Lenin ordered to return back experienced sailors from army and navy to merchant fleet in June 1921. Arctic expeditions/navigations (Kara Sea) restarted in 1921. First Far-Eastern navigation was performed in the end of 1922 [steamer "Tungus"].
As for returning back of Russian ships, captured during the Civil war - I found only that the process began in 1922. Several such ships were stopped in Black Sea and Baltic ports and were given to merchant fleet of Soviet Republic; 2 ice-breakers/3 tugs/3 floating cranes came from Finland according to agreement; "Nizhny Novgorod", "Kolyma", "Vladimir" returned back from UK; "Kishinev", "Tomsi" and other steamers returmed back to Vladivostok since 11.1922.
Sea trade increased in Soviet Russia. Steamer "Dekabrist" performed run from Petrograd to Far East in 1923, several runs were made to China and Japan; "Elborus" performed the first run to Constantinople, "Karl Libkneht" transported timber to Netherlands. Central joint-stock steamship company "Sovtorgflot" was established in 1924.
The Soviet plan of native merchant shipbuilding was accepted in 1923 for 6 years. Central company "Sudotrest" was established as well as Central design office of sea shipbuilding in Leningrad. The first Soviet steamer "Tovarishch Krasin" [medium timber carrier, produced in large series] for Arkhangelsk-London line was launched 25.10.1925, the first cargo-passenger refrigerating ships for Leningrad-London line ["Andrei Zhdanov"-type] were laid down o1.05.1925, mail-cargo-passenger diesel ships "Gruzia" and "Krym" for Black Sea of very successful design were built in Germany according to Soviet project in 1926 [the four ships of the series were built in USSR], the first Soviet cargo-passenger steamer for Far-East of "Anadyr"-type was laid down in 1929 as well as so called Marseille refrigerators of "Volga"-type, cargo coastal motor schooners for Black/Azov seas of "Pioner"-type began to produce since 1928, the production of native medium and large tankers for Black and Caspian seas were ordered by Central oil company "Neftesindikat" in 1928.....
Regards, BP
In case you don't know it:
http://www.photoship.co.uk/
has a good collection of shipfotos.
I've found the following pictures of ships belonging to our thread (I've used the spelling of photoship, even if it's clearly wrong, because the pictures are in alphabetical order):
Andre Marti-01; Baltika-01, -02; Cooperatzia-01; Desna-01; Janis Rainis-01; Juan Sebastian Elcano-01, -02; Kapa-01; Kara-01 (two different pictures of the same ship); Otto Sumiot-01; Petrovski-01; Petrovsky-01 (again two different pictures of the same ship); Spartak-01; Unja-01; Varlaam Araneson-01; Varlaam Avaneson-01 (the same picture, you can choose if you like it more or less dark
); Venta-01 (should be the Venta of 1908); Volga-01
May be there are more pictures of ships under former names, but my alphabetical list of renamings isn't finished yet
.
Regards
Klaus Günther
http://www.photoship.co.uk/
has a good collection of shipfotos.
I've found the following pictures of ships belonging to our thread (I've used the spelling of photoship, even if it's clearly wrong, because the pictures are in alphabetical order):
Andre Marti-01; Baltika-01, -02; Cooperatzia-01; Desna-01; Janis Rainis-01; Juan Sebastian Elcano-01, -02; Kapa-01; Kara-01 (two different pictures of the same ship); Otto Sumiot-01; Petrovski-01; Petrovsky-01 (again two different pictures of the same ship); Spartak-01; Unja-01; Varlaam Araneson-01; Varlaam Avaneson-01 (the same picture, you can choose if you like it more or less dark
); Venta-01 (should be the Venta of 1908); Volga-01May be there are more pictures of ships under former names, but my alphabetical list of renamings isn't finished yet
.Regards
Klaus Günther
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mjbollinger
- Member
- Posts: 238
- Joined: 14 Sep 2005, 02:23
- Location: Great Falls, VA
Hi BP,
The nature of the Atlantic convoys changed with the introduction of large numbers of Liberty and Empire ships. Convoys speeds were able to increase to 10-11 knots as opposed to 7-8 knots. Many Soviet ships could not keep up with this increased speed. As it was, many had struggled to keep up with convoys before, such as IZHORA with QP-8.
MB
The nature of the Atlantic convoys changed with the introduction of large numbers of Liberty and Empire ships. Convoys speeds were able to increase to 10-11 knots as opposed to 7-8 knots. Many Soviet ships could not keep up with this increased speed. As it was, many had struggled to keep up with convoys before, such as IZHORA with QP-8.
MB
Thanks a lot for the very interesting link, Klaus! I will investigate it soon in details. As for the ship names, yes, some of them are mentioned in incorrect way - for example, should be "Kara" and "Varlaam Avanesov".kgvm wrote:
In case you don't know it:
http://www.photoship.co.uk/
has a good collection of shipfotos.
I've found the following pictures of ships belonging to our thread (I've used the spelling of photoship, even if it's clearly wrong, because the pictures are in alphabetical order):
Andre Marti-01; Baltika-01, -02; Cooperatzia-01; Desna-01; Janis Rainis-01; Juan Sebastian Elcano-01, -02; Kapa-01; Kara-01 (two different pictures of the same ship); Otto Sumiot-01; Petrovski-01; Petrovsky-01 (again two different pictures of the same ship); Spartak-01; Unja-01; Varlaam Araneson-01; Varlaam Avaneson-01 (the same picture, you can choose if you like it more or less dark ); Venta-01 (should be the Venta of 1908); Volga-01
May be there are more pictures of ships under former names, but my alphabetical list of renamings isn't finished yet
Yes, I agree. Maximal speed of "Liberties" was 11-11.5 knots and despite the fact that some Soviet-built cargo ships could give up to 12-13 knots as well as some relatively modern [built in 1930s] foreign-built cargo ships in Soviet service, quite many old or overwear Soviet merchant ships couldn't give more than 8-9 knots for sure.Marty wrote:
The nature of the Atlantic convoys changed with the introduction of large numbers of Liberty and Empire ships. Convoys speeds were able to increase to 10-11 knots as opposed to 7-8 knots. Many Soviet ships could not keep up with this increased speed. As it was, many had struggled to keep up with convoys before, such as IZHORA with QP-8.
As for unlucky cargo steamer "Izhora"[built in 1921 in Great Britain, 2815 brt, Murmansk State Steamship Company (before WWII - used by Baltic Sea State Steamship Company), captain V.I. Belov] - the ship with wood boards as cargo performed her 3rd run from Murmansk to Reykjavik [convoy QP-8] and laged from convoy about 100 miles because of storm [happened 04.03], strong windage (wood boards transported on the deck also) and trouble with old steam engine which was under repair by crew that time - captain of "Izhora" reported about extremelly worn steam engine before convoy run but there was no ship to replace that timber carrier. Soon "Izhora" was detected by German warships ["Tirpitz" and 3 destroyers] and sank by destroyer Z-14 "Friedrich Inn" 07.03.1942 in Norwegian Sea, SW from Is. Medvezhy (Bear); 72.35'N 10.50'E. Radioman N. Gusarov could send radio message with exact coordinates [Germans raised the signal about radio silence and they didn't expect that Soviet captain started radiocommunication after that, "Tirpitz" began radio countermeasures and ordered to destroy radio room of "Izhora" with delay], so radio message from "Izhora" [gunned gunned Ijora gunned RR de UPEQ 7235 N 1050 E Ijora] was received by British warships and PQ-12 and saved that convoy from destruction. "Izhora" had absolutely no chances to survive in combat with battleship and 3 destroyers but women-artillerymen opened fire from single small-calibre gun and two MGs. Old timber carrier didn't want to sink after dozens of direct shell hits [destroyers spent 11 150mm, 43 127mm and 82 37mm shells during 30 min] because of cargo (wood boards), 2 torpedos from Z-14 and Z-25 missed, so Z-14 dropped two depth charges close to the burning ship, which sank after that only [17:15]. All 34 crewmembers of "Izhora" were lost [except chief mate N. Adaev who was captured from small life raft and killed in concentration camp 22.09.1944 as active member of resistance movement]. The original video about last minutes of "Izhora" is known [made from the board of Z-14 and "Tirpitz"], I found a mention that Russian TV showed this documentary under the name Remember, people, that "Izhora"! recently.
http://www.bismarck-class.dk/tirpitz/hi ... alast1.jpg [last minutes of timber carrier "Izhora" - photo made from distance meter of "Tirpitz"]
http://www.schlachtschiff.com/kriegsmar ... last_1.gif [map of the correspomding area]
From http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forums/s ... hp?t=48963
Regards, BPHere how it was described in the novel of "Requiem to convoy PQ-17" by Valentin Pikul.
On March, 5th 1942, a German recon plane found PQ-12 convoy. The "Tirpitz" was ordered to intercept it.
It moved to the Yan-Maien Island.
On March, 6th a British submarine saw the "Tirpitz" and informed the British Navy Command about it. The convoy was ordered to change its course.
Historians defined later that sometimes the "Tirpitz" was in the distance of 80 miles from convoy and from British covering forces of Admiral Tovey.
The "Tirpitz" didn't find PQ-12, the British ships also didn't find the "Tirpitz".
Here are some direct quotes later
"The Soviet timber ship "Izhora" remained behind of QP-8 convoy because it spent some time to repair at sea a breakage in its engine...
And that "Izhora" was unlucky to run up against the "Tirpitz", the flagship of Hitler's Navy
Ziliaks asked the commander of the "Tirpitz":
"Kapitan-Zur-Zee, fire a salvo by your main caliber to these logs."
Topp answered contemptuously:
"You know the price of a salvo of the "Tirpitz" for Germany. We shoot by gold..."
The expensive lanky fellow didn't want to get mixed up with the shy timber ship and let his destroyers to finish it off. We don't know what the Soviet people on board of the "Izhora" felt when they saw that the pitiless enemy was approaching on the distance of a salvo...
Anyway at least one thing is clear: they didn't get down their banner in the spite of the fact that they had no reasons to hope that the enemy would give quarter to them...
Ziliaks talked through radio to the destroyers:
"Approach to it closer and then open point-blank fire... I think that about a dozen shells will be enough to this floating trough!"
The destroyers shot 10, 20, 30 shells....
The "Izhora" which was being torn to pieces by the shells was not sinking.
Suddenly a heart-rending shout resounded in Ziliaks' phones:
"The Russians have begun radio transmission... by a code!"
The matter was taking a bad turn. But here the jammer installations of the "Tirpitz" have begun to work at full power. "Boom-boom-boom", - it have resounded in air. "Urrl...ur-r-rl...ur-r-rl... boom-boom". The Germans began to surpass the signals of the Soviet ship by radio noise.
"Crush their radiocabin!" Ziliaks ordered.
The Metropolian Fleet received weak signals. Admiral Tovey received the fresh text in the "King George V". He was amazed:
"They are being sunk but... where are the position data of that "Izhora?""
"The radiooperator cut off the transmission. He was probably killed right during the transmission, sir..."
A half of an hour pasted but the "Izhora" wasn't sinking.
The 3 destroyers fired again and again but the worn out "Izhora" didn't surrender and didn't sink. At last exhausted Ziliaks understood that the amazing vitality of the ship was the result of its non-sinking cargo.
Ziliaks ordered to the destroyers:
"Spare your magazines... If it is impossible to destroy it with shells so to hell with them spend two torpedoes!"
Nice and exact attack of the "Fritz Inn" against non-moving target began. It was easy like on an training area. But the beauty of the attack was the only success. The two torpedoes went by the spell-bound "Izhora".
Topp, the commander of the "Tirpitz" smiled wryly:
"It looks like this Russian steamer, all in holes, will cost to Germany much more than the price of my main caliber salvo..."
Ziliaks ordered to the destroyers to approach to him.
"I want to see the blush of a shame on your faces!" – The admiral said to the commanders ofthe destroyers.
The three unlucky destroyers were pitching on waves nearly the flagman ship. And some further "Izhora" with Archangelsk timber was smoking.
Ziliaks waited a little and shouted
"Whereis your valour? Is it possible that you are not able to break even this floating shed?"
The young commander shouted from the bridge of the "Z-25":
"It is not our blame that this shed doesn't burn and doesn't sink."
Ziliaks answered:
"You will end by that this shed will sink you"
Suddenly the "Fritz Inn" made a gyration and raised the signal to the others to not disturb to him. Than he went right to the "Izhora" at full speed. The ships drew together headily. The "Fritz Inn" aimed to come right nearly with a board of the Russian timber ship. It was a risky manoeuvre but the enemy ship did it successfully...
When the boards of the ships came alongside a set of depth charges, tuned on the minimal depth of explosion, was thrown from the destroyer. Those bombs exploded in a low depth. The powerful explosions which killed submarines beated the bottom of the "Izhora" and almost throw of the timber ship from the water. Only after that the "Izhora" sank. Remember, people, that "Izhora"!..."
After that the "Tirpitz" became to retreat and was attacked by 12 "Albacores" from the "Victories". All the torpedoes missed!
Yes, the excellent collection of ship photos all over the world. Unfortunately, there are only a few photos of Soviet merchant ships of WWII period.kgvm wrote:
http://www.photoship.co.uk/
has a good collection of shipfotos....
Cooperatzia-01....Kapa-01; Kara-01 (two different pictures of the same ship); Volga-01
As for Soviet-built cargo-passenger diesel ship "Kooperatsiya" ["Andrej Zhdanov"-type or so called "London refrigerators"] - a very good photo indeed
http://www.photoship.co.uk/JAlbum/Old%2 ... zia-01.jpg
The famous ship participated in 5 expeditions to Antarctic, transported cargos to republican Spain. In 1939 the ship was reequipped and armed in Murmansk as patrol ship "Veter". Disarmed and returned back to Baltic Sea State Steamship Company 29.12.1940, mobilized again in June 1941 as patrol ship SKR-104 "Veter" of the North Navy. Since 19.07.1941 - depot ship for submarines and torpedo boats. Survived the war despite several hits of German bombs, scrapped in 1987 as floating hotel
Photos of Soviet-built medium timber carrier "Kara" ["Tovarishch Krasin"-type series V-bis, the first Soviet-built steamers]
http://www.photoship.co.uk/JAlbum/Old%2 ... apa-01.jpg
http://www.photoship.co.uk/JAlbum/Old%2 ... ara-01.jpg
Note the very high bulwarks for transportation timber on the deck in addition to holds to save port-charges, icebreaking enforcement of hull, pillars instead masts, powerful steam wrenches. I guess these are post-WWII photos because of radiolocator antenna.
"Kara" participated in transportation of military cargos in Northern theater of operations [including North Atlantic convoys and runs in Kara Sea], survived the war and scrapped in 1967
As for "Volga", please, remind me what kind of ship is it? This could be cargo ship built in Netherlands in 1936 for USSR [Baltic State Steamship Company, BGMP]
http://www.photoship.co.uk/JAlbum/Old%2 ... lga-01.jpg
Regards, BP
P.S. As for unclear cases [Black Sea]
1) does anybody know exact info about cargo-passenger steamer "Lenin" [built in Danzig in 1909, 2713 brt]? Several sources mention that "Lenin" participated in convoy Sevastopol-Novorossisk and was lost 27.07.1941 to the S from Cape Sarych [44.20N 33.44,5E]. But the reason of loss is unclear - explosion on mine field [the most possible reason] or attack of Romanian submarine "Delfinul" [AFAIK Romanian submarines couldn't sink any ships during WWII]. The amount of victims from "Lenin" is also differ from source to source - 600 - 1000 men.
2) about armed icebreaker "Stepan Makarov" [built by Swan Hunter WR in 1916, 2156 brt]. The ship was lost around 17.11.1941 during run Tuapse - Sevastopol with food supplies/ammunition on board. Lost because of officially unknown reason, 120 men were lost. Some historians mention several versions - that crew of icebreaker decided to turn one's coat [but radioman sent message and icebreaker was sank by Soviet aviation or submarine]. But much more possible is the following version [according to historian Strelbitsky, who investigated Central Naval Archive]: just before run icebreaker got new code name "Kerch", and 18.11.1941 the radio message was received by radio station of Sevastopol defensive area: "Icebreaker "Kerch"...Sinking...Exploded on mine...Send patrol boats". As nobody knew about new codename in Sevastopol, it was decided that was German radio provocation, so no patrol boats were sent for rescue operation. Probably, "Stepan Makarov" hit floating mine and sank soon, survived crewmembers couldn't reach coast in cold water and strong fog.
http://www.rustrana.ru/articles/11608/p1065241194_1.jpg
3) about cargo steamer "Kommunist" [built by Sunderland SB Co in 1891, 1941 brt]. The ship was lost 19-23.02.1942 during run Novorossisk-Sevastopol with cargos on board. Possible reason of loss - storm, but exact date and coordinates are unknown. All crew (34 men) was lost.
BIGpanzer wrote:
Regards
Klaus Günther
Yes, it's the "Volga" of 1936 (sister ships "A. Andreev" and "Tsiolkovsky"As for "Volga", please, remind me what kind of ship is it? This could be cargo ship built in Netherlands in 1936 for USSR [Baltic State Steamship Company, BGMP]
http://www.photoship.co.uk/JAlbum/Old%2 ... lga-01.jpg
Regards
Klaus Günther
Thanks!kgvm wrote:
Yes, it's the "Volga" of 1936 (sister ships "A. Andreev" and "Tsiolkovsky")
AFAIK Dutch-built cargo diesel ship "A. Andreev" survived the war [used by Far-Eastern State Steamship Company in 1939-1955, was sank because of collision in 1966 in North Sea], "Volga" (ex-"Kosarev") also survived the war [used by Far-Eastern State Steamship Company in 1940-1946, participated in Polar convoy RA-51, scrapped in 1968].
http://ntic.msun.ru/ntic/exhibition/fesco/pic/f4_1.jpg
http://ntic.msun.ru/ntic/exhibition/fes ... /f4_2.html ["A. Andreev"]
http://ntic.msun.ru/ntic/exhibition/fes ... 175_1.html
http://ntic.msun.ru/ntic/exhibition/fes ... 175_2.html ["Volga"]
As for "Tsiolkovsky" [from Murmansk State Steamship Company] - the ship performed convoy run QP-11 with timber on board and it was lost during combat of convoy with destroyers Z-24, Z-25 and submarine U-589 in Barents Sea 100 miles to the north from Kola bay [71.46N 34.30E] 01.05.1942. "Tsiolkovsky" was torpedoed by destroyer and sank soon, 33 crewmembers of "Tsiolkovsky" were lost (including captain V.G. Levitsky) and 13 were rescued by British corvette.
Regards, BP
Last edited by BIGpanzer on 07 Aug 2007, 17:24, edited 3 times in total.