Is this an original SS double decal helmet?

Demontrooper · #1

Hey guys, this helmet is coming out of a museum, so I doubt that authenticity is an issue; but I would like it to be established anyways. But I also know that museums make many glaring mistakes as well. My main concern is what its value is. This is not a for-sale ad; when that time comes then I will give this wonderful forum it's due's by properly posting it up in the F/S. I need to know at what price though, so that is what this is for.

Thanks!

Demontrooper · #2

more pics

phil brown · #3

what is the maker and batch number, ? its hard to tell from those pictures, the decal certainly has age consistent with the wear on the lid, im not happy with the party sheild, it looks pink, however it may be the flash, can tou do a real close up of the decals, we may be able to judge better, im betting its a quist 64.

Demontrooper · #4

It will take me a little while to get additional photo's, though I will try to. This helmet is not mine, so I get everything from it's owner through email. What is the value of (an authentic) double decal SS helmet? One like in this condition?

edw52 · #5

The value of an authentic Doube Decal SS helmet is $5000 - $10,000 USD

To be honest, I would be VERY careful. SS helmets are the most faked, people have been able to pull some very "Authentic" looking helmets. I think it is fake in my opinion. The decals are faded but are almost 100% there, the paint inside the helmet looks too good. But I am not an expert, send this in to Brian Bell at http://www.german-helmets.com/ he will tell you and I think he is pretty re-liable. Oyeah the liner looks artifically aged because it is all there no tears, it hasnt "shrunk" in any part of the liner and the size stamp is still there, very visible and not worn. Anyone else agree or disagree?

edw52 · #6

Also it is hard to tell, but the PArty decal doesn't look off set with the rest of the shield.

Demontrooper · #7

Just to put it out there; this helmet is part of the collection belonging to John Barrett; who started collecting back when you could buy Mp40's for $15, and founded the Michigan Military Museum; and now is selling off his collection. I bought a mint Mp44 dummy gun from him. He told me that he bought this helmet from a vet in the '60s. While I am not saying this to validate the helmets authenticity; I would appreciate thorough explanation. Also, a reference photo would be awesome. Rylan, I would appreciate you follow through; you know much more about this stuff than I do!

Also; I really do not want to get into huge debate about authenticity; I am concerned about a value of a real double decal SS helmet. If the owner of this helmet (Mr. Barrett) knows that this helmet is authentic and wants to sell it as one; even if bad photo quality alters the color of the paint, etc.

Also, maker is Quist (Q64).

edw52 · #8

Hi there, I always suggest getting many opinions from different people before your make a decision. I am not good at pricing things, but if I were to price this (providing that it is real) would be closer to the $10,000 mark than the $5000 mark. From what I understand the M40 Double Decal helmet is the rarest of them all. Go here if you would like to read more http://www.german-helmets.com/SS%20Helm ... 0DECAL.htm

But I think this helmet could be a fake. I really am not an expert though, and even if you talk to an expert.. Talk to a few more! When your talking about this type of money you must be damn sure it is real. From what I have read hundreds of DD M40 SS helmets were made in a 4 month period, but most were altered in the field. Due to regulations the national party decal was removed. So from reading that we know there is way less than 1000 made?? That is just what I got from checking around different sites. I would seriously send in the pictures to brian bell and get him to authenticate it. Because anyone who does a little researching will know these are very rare. It could be real, I just don't personnaly think it is.

Anyone else got any opinions on this helmet?

Schirmmutze7 · #9

Hi,

the ss Helmets is so Rare, have you more pic ?

thanks.

edw52 · #10

Demontrooper: have you sent in pictures of the helmet to B. Bell of http://www.german-helmets.com ??

Also, does anyone else have any opinions of this helmet? I am curious what others think of it.

Dieter · #11

When in doubt, do not buy.

walther43 · #12

I would like to make this clear I'm no "helmet expert" by far these are just my observations off the top of my head without looking anything up concerning the SS decal and from the pictures supplied. I would have to question this helmets authenticity. 1 The decal wear does not look consistent with the helmets paint wear (although this could be the picture quality) 2 The inside of the shell to be so clean, I do not see a dome stamp But then again I do not think all helmet shells may have had a dome stamp. But seeing how this helmet appears to be a M35 model (early helmet) and having been issued to the "elite corps" you would think these helmets would have been very well inspected. 3 The liner and drawstring look awfully clean, no signs of sweat on the band or soiling of the drawstring. But again this could be just the picture quality. 4 Also, the liner pins or "rivets" have what appears to be surface rust around them. But there does not appear to be any surface rust on the liner pins or "rivets". But seeing how long the helmet was in service, the liner and riveis may have been replaced in some point in time (are the rivets a little loose?) 5 For the helmet to be in such good condition where is the chinstrap? But nothing beats a actual hands on inspection where you can look, smell,and touch the helmet in person. Also just because it is a so called "museum piece" does not make this a authentic helmet. Museums have been known for making quality reproduction for their exhibits. Again this is just my opinion and you know what they say about them. But then again I hope this helmet turns out to be a good one for you. You will have a rare piece of history in your collection, good luck!! Here is a good place for info about helmets http://ww2germanhelmets.com/index.html

Demontrooper · #13

Hey Guys! Thank you for all the info and help! Yes, Brian Bell agree's that this helmet is questionable (i.e. he told me that he would not buy it, but did not say whether it is fake or real.) This topic is still open for debate; I would like to hear what you all have to say.

As someone who does not know much about helmets; I would (in the helmets defense) say that wear is difficult to use as a measure for artificial aging; or partial restoration. Maybe the helmet was rained on; and rusted on the outside. Maybe the rope was replaced with an original.

Are there a few definitive things I should tell John to look for on his helmet? I heard that the "white" part of the SS decal is supposed to be very shiney? Basically it is supposed to sparkle in sunlight; etc. Anything else? Also; the party decal sure looks "pink'ed" from (water damage)? Has anybody else seen similar wear on red colors from decals?

Once again; thanks for the help; I will see about more photo's.

edw52 · #14

I know I already mentioned some reasons why I thought the helmet was fake, but I may aswell list them all.

1. The rim of the liner looks really "worn down", but the rest of the liner looks mint exept for the "darkening/ageing" (probably by chemical).
2. The liner size stamp is almost 100% there, on most liners these wear off totally or fade almost out of site.
3. The wear on the outside of the helmet is not consistent with the wear of the liner or inside of the helmet shell. Like walther43 said: the inside of the helmet is just too clean. Also there is no rust to speak of on the inside of the helmet.. again not consistent.
4. The liner looks flexable, "lubricated" and soft. Not to mention is all there! There are no tears or cracks.
5. The decals are a little faded, but to speak of they are almost 100%. Ussually decals will start to flake away or have chips or scratchs accross them. As for the party decal, yes it could be "rain water" or could be the chemican used to add rust, reacting with the decal. Or a chemican used to fade it, changing the color a bit.
6. I am not 100% sure, but I think most party decals are "off set a little" instead of dead in the middle. The swastika is a little to the top or bottom of the white circle.
7. Walther43, this isn't a M35. This is a M40, making it soooo much more rare. With soo many points leading us to think this helmet is a fake, and then the fact that this is the rarest type of SS helmet. It makes the conclusion in my eyes that it is indeed a fake.

walther43 · #15

"7. Walther43, this isn't a M35. This is a M40, making it soooo much more rare. With soo many points leading us to think this helmet is a fake, and then the fact that this is the rarest type of SS helmet. It makes the conclusion in my eyes that it is indeed a fake"
RylanBrissette

Are you sure? the vent hole looks like a M35 setup, but then again could be the way I'm seeing the pictures And strange that the inside of the shell shows no sign of rust not even surface rust? I would maybe buy the helmet if it was priced accordingly. the shell itself appears to be a original. It's just all the other add ons that are questionable.

And if any part of a helmet has been replaced post war. even with a original part. How could the helmet still be be called original? It would more then likely be called a restoration with original parts wouldn't it?