SS armband

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William Kramer
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SS armband

#1

Post by William Kramer » 03 Dec 2014, 20:41

Hello all,

What's the trick to authenticating these things, what's the difference between the fakes and the authentic ones?

Any thoughts on this one? I don't know what to look for in originals.

William Kramer
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gorget  arm bands 010.JPG
gorget  arm bands 012.JPG

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John G.
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Re: SS armband

#2

Post by John G. » 04 Dec 2014, 12:13

William,
The best quality fakes are nearly impossible to detect, but these are "few and far between".... most fakes have incorrect braid, wool, thread, tag(s), etc. (either or all) so are fairly easy to spot.... without seeing the inside/tags/etc.... impossible to call this one.... but "looks o.k." from the limited pictures....

Should be the same RZM quality wool/circle/swastika as high quality wool "Swastika" armbands.... should not "glow" unless it's been dry cleaned.... if minty where's the tag? etc. If it isn't the same quality as a good wool armband.... it's not legit. (Early "cotton" versions are a different story)....

The key is usually the black tape bands.... they usually aren't period material... knowing what "real" tape looks like is the only thing I know off... that and being the same quality wool/circle/swas. as high quality wool "Swastika" types...

Best I can do....
John G.


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Re: SS armband

#3

Post by Ian Hulley » 08 Dec 2014, 12:47

John G. wrote: most fakes have incorrect braid, wool, thread, tag(s), etc. (either or all) so are fairly easy to spot.... without seeing the inside/tags/etc.... impossible to call this one.... but "looks o.k." from the limited pictures ....
I agree with John, I see nothing wrong ... but then again we can see very little. Quality-wise it seems fine. :thumbsup:

Ian

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Re: SS armband

#4

Post by freddiefro » 07 Mar 2015, 14:24

I have a question regarding the black borders on an SS-Armband. Angolia says they are "a 9mm wide black tape," but as I go through period photos, it seems that the thickness isn't always the same. Below are two examples…the one on the left (on a tunic) seems to have a considerably thicker border than the ones on the right (one on a tunic & one on a greatcoat). Both are 1934 photos with obviously different versions of the armband. Any ideas?

Fred
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SS-Armband.jpg
SS-Armband.jpg (23.31 KiB) Viewed 1738 times

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Mark in Cleveland, Tn.
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Re: SS armband

#5

Post by Mark in Cleveland, Tn. » 07 Mar 2015, 15:10

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: Angolia??? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
He is not *the bible* expert on TR militaria/relics.

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Re: SS armband

#6

Post by freddiefro » 07 Mar 2015, 18:52

Thank you for the input Mark in Cleveland! So, in your opinion, the 9mm statement by Angolia is not necessarily a "standardized size" (which, judging by the photos I posted, can't be…at least in late 1934)? The majority of photos I viewed seem to have a 9mm border (mostly from forums where armbands appear to be posted "full-sized," for example, http://www.germanmilitaria.com), with some photos showing a border being a little thinner (8mm?) and a few being somewhat thicker. It's a mystery.

Fred

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Mark in Cleveland, Tn.
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Re: SS armband

#7

Post by Mark in Cleveland, Tn. » 09 Mar 2015, 02:06

Well, Collectors Guild/www.germanmilitaria.com has been getting a new ahole torn the past year or so among dealers as a hot bed of fakes as well.Many complaints on various militaria forums. They state ther vet the relics, but it is a Caveat Emptor there as well.

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John G.
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Re: SS armband

#8

Post by John G. » 09 Mar 2015, 12:07

The 9mm width is by RZM Regulation.... so anything after 1933/34 would be standardized.... prior to that, there certianly could be slight variations...
most the photographic differences are often camera angle or optic allusions...
John G.

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Re: SS armband

#9

Post by freddiefro » 09 Mar 2015, 13:15

Thank you both for your imput. So, it would seem that the armband on the photo I posted above on the left (it is Reichsminister Dr. Lammers - he was SS-Oberführer at the time) is an earlier version of the SS-armband before armbands were "standardized" and the 2 armbands on the right (Moder & Prützmann) were the "standardized' version (since both photos are late 1934, I know it's not unusual for some officials to continue to wear their earlier versions of collar-tabs, tunic style, and in this case, armbands). Thanks, again…that is helpful.

Fred

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Re: SS armband

#10

Post by Ian Hulley » 09 Mar 2015, 14:08

freddiefro wrote: I know it's not unusual for some officials to continue to wear their earlier versions of collar-tabs, tunic style, and in this case, armbands).
Many of the Old Guard actively did this right to the end ... usually as a sign of their early 'Kampfzeit' time.

Ian

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William Kramer
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Re: SS armband

#11

Post by William Kramer » 24 Apr 2015, 22:14

a reproduction with strange stitching on the roundel.

William Kramer
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IMG_9121.JPG
IMG_9124.JPG
IMG_9122.JPG

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William Kramer
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Re: SS armband

#12

Post by William Kramer » 24 Apr 2015, 22:16

was told any RZM tag with blue or red numbers is bad.

William Kramer
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IMG_9128.JPG
IMG_9125.JPG
IMG_9123.JPG

freddiefro
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Re: SS armband

#13

Post by freddiefro » 01 May 2015, 03:23

William Kramer wrote:was told any RZM tag with blue or red numbers is bad.
William Kramer
Interesting…I have several armbands in my (modest) collection, so I was curious if the bottom 2 photos from my collection show "fake" RZM tags (the first one is on a Party armband & the second on a Wehrmanschaften armband). The "top" number on each is in color and I often seen the same thing on other armbands. I was told one of the main criterion was that they have to have 6 digits on the "bottom" or they are fake, but I've never heard about the "top" numbers & the color issue. Opinions, please & thank you.

Fred
Attachments
000.jpg
000.jpg (54.15 KiB) Viewed 1539 times
001.jpg
001.jpg (79.15 KiB) Viewed 1539 times

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William Kramer
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Re: SS armband

#14

Post by William Kramer » 01 May 2015, 03:27

another thing to notice on my armband (check yours for us) is that the swastika was sewn onto the disc prior to the disc being sewn to the band itself. If you scroll up and see mine on the inside of the band you do not just see a circle from the disc being sewn on, you see an outline of the swastika.

William Kramer

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Re: SS armband

#15

Post by freddiefro » 01 May 2015, 04:09

William Kramer wrote:another thing to notice on my armband (check yours for us) is that the swastika was sewn onto the disc prior to the disc being sewn to the band itself.William Kramer
Attached are photos of my NSDAP armband (sorry for the poor quality photos…I just took these quickly), and my SS armband. The swastika is sewn to the circle before they are attached to the armband on each. On the third photo, notice, the RZM tag on my Wehrmanschaften armband is not in the center of the sewn circle, but on the opposite side across the vertical seam. Once again, opinions, please.

Fred
Attachments
NSDAP [01].jpg
NSDAP [01].jpg (48.6 KiB) Viewed 1532 times
NSDAP [02].jpg
NSDAP [02].jpg (48.36 KiB) Viewed 1532 times
SS [01].jpg
SS [01].jpg (78.9 KiB) Viewed 1532 times
SS [02].jpg
SS [02].jpg (68.61 KiB) Viewed 1532 times
Wehrmanschaften [03].jpg
Wehrmanschaften [03].jpg (51.03 KiB) Viewed 1532 times
Last edited by freddiefro on 01 May 2015, 04:27, edited 1 time in total.

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