LAH uniform in the 12th SS HJ

[Dieter198]

Hi guys,
I posted earlier but I might of put it in the wrong place first.
Im looking for some advice regarding the LAH officers and NCO's (in particular the NCO's) who were drafted into the 12th as command roles. When they transferred over, did their uniforms change much? In the refitting process and training process for the 12th were they issued new uniforms or did they change any elements of their current dress? I've seen photographs with officers keeping LAH cyphers on their shoulders boards but did they put new cuff titles on like the newly enlisted Hitlerjugend members?
Ive gone through photos and books but either the photos are unclear or the officer is wearing something over the tunic. I know alot of the new recruits were given dot.44 camoflage items but id like to know more about the NCO's. Which tunics were being used, what insignia etc.
Thanks for your attention, hope youve had a good weekend.

[John G.]

They would have continued wearing thier LAH insignia, what ever uniform they had, no special insignia... etc. The Hitlerjugend cuff title wasn't "issued" until Dec. 1944 to the survivors of the Normandy Campaign.... and would only have been worn by permanently assigned personel... not officers or NCOs from other units assigned to the division.

The HBT Camo. jacket was worn by all ranks... mainly without insignia (except sleeve eagle).
John G.

[Dieter198]

Hi John,
Thanks for the swift reply and advice. I'd thought this may have been the case i just couldnt find it written. Do you have the source anywhere? Not that i dont believe you just if someone asks i can explain from a source how i know.
Thanks again
Dieter

[John G.]

According to the "Cuffbands 1784-Present" Book (Williamson & McGuirl) pg. 238 the Hitlerjungend Cuff title was introduced in Feb. 1944 but was "considered" an honor award, and the first issue was after the battles of Normandy & escape from Falaise...prior to the Battle of the Bulge- to those few survivors of those actions. That's the reason why so little photographic evidence of wear exist.

The uniform details are both "common sense" and based on several books on the HJ Division, primarily "Blood and Honor- History of the 12th SS Panzer Div. "Hitler Youth" 1943-45" by Craig Luther and Angolia's and Littlejohn's books on the Hitler Youth (in the HJ Div. sections).
John G.

[Dieter198]

Thats excellent stuff. Ill take a look at that book aswell. Ive got a few but not that one so i just purchased it.
I figured it might be the case after seeing when it was awarded.
Thanks again for all the help John, ome more book on the shelf aswell.

[Ian Hulley]

It doesn't help us 70 years later that the advent of the camouflage '44 Dot' tunic and trouser set coincides with the creation of the 'HJ', insignia are very rarely seen worn in period photos of Erbsentarn tunics, including (to disagree with John for once) sleeve eagles.

Ian

[John G.]

Ian,
No problem, I should have said "w/sleeve eagles occassionally factory-sewn"....
John G.

[Ian Hulley]

Ian