Axis History Forum

This is an apolitical forum for discussions on the Axis nations and related topics hosted by Marcus Wendel's Axis History Factbook in cooperation with Michael Miller's Axis Biographical Research, Christoph Awender's WW2 day by dayand Christian Ankerstjerne’s Panzerworld.

Skip to content

If you found the forum useful please consider supporting us. You can also support us by buying books through the AHF Bookstore.

Siege of Shkodra 1912-1913

Discussions on the final era of the Ottoman Empire, from the Young Turk Revolution of 1908 until the Treaty of Lausanne in 1923.
Hosted by Peter H.

Re: Siege of Shkodra 1912-1913

Postby malioni91 on 14 Feb 2013 04:38

Peter H wrote:Thanks for the map Jeff.

It shows the Birdica position,said to be the scene of a lopsided resulting Turkish counterattack on the 9th Feb 1913.

According to Erickson page 307:

The Turks swept over them and pushed them completely back to their orginal positions.Serb casualties were significant.The Turks claimed to have killed 1400 Serbs and furthermore to have captured 428 men and three thousand rifles at a cost to themselves of 41 dead and 64 wounded.Although these claims may seem fanciful,such a lopsided claim of victory appears nowhere else in the thousands of pages of historical text concerning the Balkan Wars published by the Turkish General Staff.However Richard Hall,who noted 1800 Serb casualties,confirms these losses.Needless to say,the Turks held the field at the end of the day,and they attributed their smashing victory to the poor quality of the Serb reservists,who comprised the bulk of the regiments....


Peter, If I'm not mistaken, the Turkish attacking element was comprised mainly of Redifs (reservists) from the Elbasan and the Prizren divs. Berdica was the scene of the heaviest fighting because of the type of terrain. I've seen the area a couple of years ago and it is a pretty flat one, with a few low hills here and other.
malioni91
Member
United States
 
Posts: 56
Joined: 30 Nov 2011 07:19

Re: Siege of Shkodra 1912-1913

Postby malioni91 on 14 Feb 2013 04:38

Peter H wrote:Thanks for the map Jeff.

It shows the Birdica position,said to be the scene of a lopsided resulting Turkish counterattack on the 9th Feb 1913.

According to Erickson page 307:

The Turks swept over them and pushed them completely back to their orginal positions.Serb casualties were significant.The Turks claimed to have killed 1400 Serbs and furthermore to have captured 428 men and three thousand rifles at a cost to themselves of 41 dead and 64 wounded.Although these claims may seem fanciful,such a lopsided claim of victory appears nowhere else in the thousands of pages of historical text concerning the Balkan Wars published by the Turkish General Staff.However Richard Hall,who noted 1800 Serb casualties,confirms these losses.Needless to say,the Turks held the field at the end of the day,and they attributed their smashing victory to the poor quality of the Serb reservists,who comprised the bulk of the regiments....


Peter, If I'm not mistaken, the Turkish attacking element was comprised mainly of Redifs (reservists) from the Elbasan and the Prizren divs. Berdica was the scene of the heaviest fighting because of the type of terrain. I've seen the area a couple of years ago and it is a pretty flat one, with a few low hills here and other.
malioni91
Member
United States
 
Posts: 56
Joined: 30 Nov 2011 07:19

Re: Siege of Shkodra 1912-1913

Postby ltcolonel on 14 Feb 2013 17:10

Officila data for Serbian (Montenegrins) casualties (from archives) 1.592 casaulties (475 soldiers and 16 officers KIA and missing, 606 soldiers and 14 officers wounded, 477 soldiers i 4 officiers captured.
ltcolonel
Member
Serbia
 
Posts: 165
Joined: 04 May 2010 11:36

Re: Siege of Shkodra 1912-1913

Postby Peter H on 14 Feb 2013 20:45

The counterattacking Turks were the 2nd Battalion of the 54th Regiment.
User avatar
Peter H
Forum Staff
Australia
 
Posts: 28605
Joined: 30 Dec 2002 13:18
Location: Australia

Re: Siege of Shkodra 1912-1913

Postby jwsleser on 15 Feb 2013 01:21

The Turkish official (which is Erickson’s source) Balkan Harbi Garp Ordusu Karadağ Cephesi III ncü cilt 3 ncü kisim pages 153-157 states the Ottoman defenders were:

2/54th Regiment
3rd/50th Regiment
Elbasan Redif Battalion
Debreizir Redif Battalion
Devol Redif Battalion
Two platoons of the 6th Engineer Company
300 volunteers

The attacking force was:

1st, 4th Battalions, 11th Regiment, Sumadya Division
1st, 2nd, 3rd Battalions, 5th Regiment, Drina Division
1st, 2nd, 3rd Battalions, 6th Regiment, Drina Division

Map of the attack is below.

Jeff
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Alpino
battaglione Alpini sciatori Monte Cervino (Reenacted)
Soldato
I/20° reggimento fanteria Brescia
http://comandosupremo.com/category/montecervino
User avatar
jwsleser
Member
United States
 
Posts: 467
Joined: 13 Jun 2005 14:02
Location: Leavenworth, KS

Re: Siege of Shkodra 1912-1913

Postby Dr Eisvogel on 15 Feb 2013 11:56

The losses suffered by Montenegrin army during the siege of Shkodra/Skadar/İşkodra/Scutari in 1912/1913 were:
2430 KIA,
406 died [from disease ?]
6602 WIA
Total 9438

Source: Memoirs of Radule Simov Brajičić (1876-1963), who commanded a Montenegrin battalion during the Siege of Skadar, according to the introduction.
http://www.montenegrina.net/pages/pages1/istorija/cg_od_20vij_do_1_svj_rata/moji_memoari.htm

Lt. Radule Simov Brajičić commanded Gornjo-ozrinićka Company of Lukovski Battalion, which was part of Nikšić Brigade of the Montenegrin Army, during the first part of the campaign.

On the October 18th 1912, Lukovski Battalion was transferred to 2nd Mixed Brigade.

By April 12th 1913 Radule Simov Brajičić was battalion commander.
User avatar
Dr Eisvogel
Member
Croatia
 
Posts: 274
Joined: 24 Nov 2006 18:26
Location: Croatia

Re: Siege of Shkodra 1912-1913

Postby Dr Eisvogel on 15 Feb 2013 14:53

Image
Црногорци на врху Тарабоша, поглед Скадру на Бојани
Montenegrins on the top of Tarabosh, view towards Skadar/Shkodra on Bojana/Buna river
Source: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/Tarabos_kod_Skadra_1913.jpg

***

Image
The handing over of the Turkish flag to H. M. King Nicholas I of Montenegro in Skadar/Shkodra
Source: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/Skadar_predaja_zastave.jpg
User avatar
Dr Eisvogel
Member
Croatia
 
Posts: 274
Joined: 24 Nov 2006 18:26
Location: Croatia

Re: Siege of Shkodra 1912-1913

Postby ltcolonel on 15 Feb 2013 17:48

ltcolonel wrote:Officila data for Serbian (Montenegrins) casualties (from archives) 1.592 casaulties (475 soldiers and 16 officers KIA and missing, 606 soldiers and 14 officers wounded, 477 soldiers i 4 officiers captured.

Officila data for attack on Brdica.
ltcolonel
Member
Serbia
 
Posts: 165
Joined: 04 May 2010 11:36

Re: Siege of Shkodra 1912-1913

Postby Tosun Saral on 20 Feb 2013 23:09

Staff Captain Hasan Rıza Bey (Pasha)
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Tosun Saral
Member
Turkey
 
Posts: 3005
Joined: 02 Nov 2005 19:32
Location: Ankara/Turkey

Re: Siege of Shkodra 1912-1913

Postby Dr Eisvogel on 21 Feb 2013 19:32

Hasan Rıza Pasha (1871-1913)
Image

Source: http://www.albanianhistory.net/texts20_1/AH1916.html
User avatar
Dr Eisvogel
Member
Croatia
 
Posts: 274
Joined: 24 Nov 2006 18:26
Location: Croatia

Re: Siege of Shkodra 1912-1913

Postby Peter H on 23 Feb 2013 04:35

Jeff's map also shows the Bardanyolt Hills scene of what Erickson calls "the largest enemy attack on Iskodra during the war".15 Serb and Montenegrin battalions (5 Infantry Brigades) assaulted the position 7-9 February 1913 after a one day heavy bombardment by Serb artillery.Matrus Tepe and Niscani Tepe were also lost,only the latter recaptured by a Turkish counterattack.Turkish losses in the Battle of Bardanyolt are given as 1,300,Serb and Montenegrin around 4,000..."tactically the battle was an Ottoman defeat" (Erickson page 309).
User avatar
Peter H
Forum Staff
Australia
 
Posts: 28605
Joined: 30 Dec 2002 13:18
Location: Australia

Re: Siege of Shkodra 1912-1913

Postby jwsleser on 23 Feb 2013 15:55

Here are the maps for that action. Matrus Tepe and Niscani Tepe are on the north and northeast part of the Ottoman defense.

7 February
BardanyoitFeb7a.jpg


Night of 7 February through 9 February
BardanyoitFeb7-9b.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Alpino
battaglione Alpini sciatori Monte Cervino (Reenacted)
Soldato
I/20° reggimento fanteria Brescia
http://comandosupremo.com/category/montecervino
User avatar
jwsleser
Member
United States
 
Posts: 467
Joined: 13 Jun 2005 14:02
Location: Leavenworth, KS

Re: Siege of Shkodra 1912-1913

Postby malioni91 on 24 Feb 2013 19:09

The surrender

The city was surrendered to the Montenegrin forces by Esad Pasha Toptani, an Albanian Ottoman general who took command of the city's defenses after assassinating Hasan Riza Pasha. According to several sources, before his death, Hasan Riza Pasha had entered into secret talks with the newly formed Albanian government of Ismal Bey Vlora (Qemali) to raise the Albanian flag and declare Shkodra part of the newly independent country. Nobody can say with certainty why Esad Pasha sold the city to the Montenegrins. The official Albanian historiography claims that Esad Pasha did it only for the considerable payment that he received from Montenegro in exchange for the surrender. Other historians say that by the time that the city surrendered, the Treaty of London had granted Shkodra to Albania. However, it is certain that by that time, the city was short of food and that the majority of the population had requested the Ottoman command to stop the fighting.

Anyway, the pictures below are part of A.Lame's historical colletion:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
malioni91
Member
United States
 
Posts: 56
Joined: 30 Nov 2011 07:19

Re: Siege of Shkodra 1912-1913

Postby Peter H on 25 Feb 2013 05:25

Austro-Hungarian pressure on the resolution of the Scutari seige is also detailed here:
http://www.zmne.hu/aarms/docs/Volume4/I ... 10ball.pdf
User avatar
Peter H
Forum Staff
Australia
 
Posts: 28605
Joined: 30 Dec 2002 13:18
Location: Australia

Re: Siege of Shkodra 1912-1913

Postby Peter H on 25 Feb 2013 05:39

Thanks for the extra maps Jeff.

Landscape from: http://www.siger.org/albania/en/area-7- ... f-shkoder/
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
Peter H
Forum Staff
Australia
 
Posts: 28605
Joined: 30 Dec 2002 13:18
Location: Australia

Previous

Return to The end of the Ottoman Empire 1908-1923

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot] and 0 guests