A rare photo of Mustafa Kemal in WW1

Discussions on the final era of the Ottoman Empire, from the Young Turk Revolution of 1908 until the Treaty of Lausanne in 1923.
Tosun Saral
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A rare photo of Mustafa Kemal in WW1

#1

Post by Tosun Saral » 10 May 2006, 10:33

Major General Mustafa Kemal Pasha commander of 2nd Army inspecting Austro-Hungarian Automobile Company at Diyarbakir in October 1917.
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YM
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#2

Post by YM » 10 May 2006, 11:54

If he is conducting the inspection, I would presume he
is the one on the left of the two officers saluting. Is
that correct?
I also heard that he was not ethnically Turkish. Is that
correct?


Tosun Saral
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#3

Post by Tosun Saral » 10 May 2006, 12:53

Dear Ym, He is the one in the middle with black Turkish kalpak.
Is he Turkish Decendant?
Yes. He is a son of a Turk. He is a Turk because he quoted on the 10th anniversary of the establihment of Turkish Rupublic on Oct. 29 1933 that "I am happy to be a Turk"

His opponents, mainly the fundamentalist islamists, tell the lie that he was not a Turk because of his blue eyes and blond hair. They even say that he was a converted Jew a member of secret Jenwish Order of Sabatay Lewi from Selanik. At that time many Turkish Jews were living in the Turkish city of Selanik.

Selanik and West Trace was land of Turks since 1350's. I am also a son of East and West Trace and Macedonia. In other words I am a son of Balkan. I have also blond hair and green eyes. My mother language is Turkish. My grandparents spoke all Turkish. So the family of Mustafa Kemal spoke only Turkish.

I never mind what they say. For me he is a hero, an extaterrestrial power sended by the Great Architect of the Universe to reorganize the ill fate of the War Lord called Turk.

YM
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#4

Post by YM » 10 May 2006, 19:54

Dear Mr Saral,

Thanks for the information. I have a couple more questions.

(1) When did he become known as "Ataturk" ("Father of the Turks", correct?)
(2) Has their been any attempt by the current Islamist government to
downgrade his status since he supported secularization and abolishment
of the Caliphate?
(3) What position in the Ottoman Army did he reach by the end
of World War I?

My Grandfather fought the Turks in World War I while he was in the
British army, but I do not know which front he was on. He told
my father that he had great respect for the Turkish soldiers.
Also there have traditionally been friendly relations between
the Jews and the Turks, and today there are good relations
between Turkey and Israel.

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#5

Post by Kaan Caglar » 10 May 2006, 20:24

Dear YM,
Although your question was directed to Tosun Saral, I wish to answer your questions if you don't mind.
On 24 November 1934 the Turkish Grand Assembly gave the last name "Atatürk" (Father of Turks) as last name to Mustafa Kemal acccording to the Law on Family Names which was commissioned also in that year. He only did not support the abolishment of the Caliphate and secularization, he lead these events. This puts him as an enemy to the eyes Islamist groups. As for the current goverment, they have no attempts to downgrade his status in the surface. But it is obvious that they are trying to change many reforms he made on the way of secularization. If I'm not wrong his highest statue was lieutenant-general given in 1st of April 1916.
Regards
Kaan

Tosun Saral
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#6

Post by Tosun Saral » 10 May 2006, 20:34

Dear YM,
1-He got the surname "Atatürk" according to the new social and civil reforms of the Turkish Republic in June 21st 1934 with the law Nr. 25 25. Until that time Turks had no surnames like all moslems. That coused mostly great misunderstandings and confusion. Every Turk had his fathers name as surmane. e.g. My name is Tosun. My fathers is Ahmet. Therefore I had to use Tosun Ahmet as name. Silly isnt it? For example Saddam Husseyin. For that reason Turks used thir reputation and fame as a Name. e.g. Kavalali Mehmet Ali Pasha (Mehmet Ali Pasha of Kavala) the Governor of Egypt, Cezzar Ahmet Pasha (Ahmet Pasha the Butcher) the governnor of Akka/Acre.
After the Law many Turks tooks took the names of various places where they fought during WW1 and War of Independance. eg. Ismet Pasha, the best friend Of Mustafa Kemal and the 2nd President of Turkey after Kemal's dead, took "Inonu". Inonu is the place where he stopped the advancing Greek armieas in 1920 and 21.
My late father was an officer in the national Forces of Mustafa Kemal. He fought as a young officer cadet. The hill where he fought the British just at the end of the War of Independance was called "Saraltepe" the Saral Hill. He took the Saral" as surmane. He told us that he fought the British single handed on Saral Tepe.


2) Has their been any attempt by the current Islamist government to
downgrade his status since he supported secularization and abolishment
of the Caliphate?
Yes. Their desire is to turn the way of modern civilized Turkish Nation to the down grades of all misery. to the dark ages.

(3) What position in the Ottoman Army did he reach by the end
of World War I?

He was Major General. He commanded the army group called "Yıldırım" the lightning.

4) My Grandfather fought the Turks in World War I while he was in the
British army, but I do not know which front he was on. He told
my father that he had great respect for the Turkish soldiers.
Also there have traditionally been friendly relations between
the Jews and the Turks, and today there are good relations
between Turkey and Israel.

Your late Grandfather must have fought in Palastine Front againts Turks with British. I think it must be only a Battalion. They didnt fought in front but helped the British as side units. They were mostly non Turkish Jews. Jews of Europa. They fought with British to gain Land for their future State Israil. At the end of the war as we all know they got their promised land. Turkish Jews never fought agints Turks. They were in Turkish army as officers, medicals, ect. A close friend of mine in Ankara who is a prof. at the Uni. is a Jew. His late Grand father bears the madal of Independance. My friend can carry that madal in all holidays with great pride. A Jewish Battalion served also in Gallipoli Battles.

Turks have been always friendly to Jews. When they were tortured and expelled from Spain some 500 years ago Turks saved their lives and settled them in Selanik and other parts of Turkey. I think they call themselves Sefarid and there is also eskenazi Jews in Turkey. During the long history of time Turks have been always protector of Jews. To day there is a huge colony of Turkish Jews in Israil.

With my best wishes.
Havana Gila

Ray Walsh
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#7

Post by Ray Walsh » 23 Nov 2006, 23:05

With regards to this photo, have just visited Siirt where I was shown the same but claimed to be taken in Siirt in 1916. Was even shown where the photo was purported to have been taken

Ray

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#8

Post by Jeune Turc » 24 Dec 2006, 12:14

Rare photo, I haven't seen this.Thanks.

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faf_476
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#9

Post by faf_476 » 01 Jan 2007, 09:58

Very rare indeed and as I read this thread, It is also rare that turkish had a blue eyes and also about you Tosun Saral you had a green eyes like a british...

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#10

Post by Tosun Saral » 01 Jan 2007, 15:42

Dear faf_476
Happy New Year.
Turkey was a great imperium once. For that reason there are millions of Turks with blond hair, blue and green eyes. The Balkan Turks are mainly white in skin, blond hair, blue eyes. There is another reason. The Turks who came from middle Asia Turkestan girlnapped bleu eyed blond Europeans. May be were are the ancestors?
Have a look at my page:
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/7d696/

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faf_476
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#11

Post by faf_476 » 01 Jan 2007, 18:37

Ah, tnx for that... I just asked coz here in our country some turks had an eyes shaded in black and also I saw one shaded with brown just like us, but I think I just saw was they are only half Turks and half Filipino,.

Same 2 u Happy New Year....!! Tnx for the Info.. :)

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#12

Post by faf_476 » 01 Jan 2007, 18:49

Wow, you're family is a veteran. So are you some kind of a famous in your country LOL just asking.
Awesome I thought your age is the same as mine but when I saw your birthdate....... Your age is the same as mygrandfather and I saluted you...

As I saw the picture of your parents wedding, It is stated thier that the wedding was int the year 1940, and your birthdate was 1941. Probably your mother, when that picture was taken is pregnant and bearing you, do you have any siblings!?

I hope I had a family just like yours!!

Tnx again!! Best regards... :) :)

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#13

Post by VEDAT » 14 Jan 2007, 00:10

A great historical Picture - many Thanks Mr. Saral

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#14

Post by Tosun Saral » 22 Feb 2007, 14:33

German Hans Guhr (Retired General Major) gave the names of K u K army officers as capt. Tiergaertner, 2nd Lt. Zratt and Albrecht in his book " Als Türkischer Divisionskommandeur in Kleinasien und Palaestina" p.113

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Re: A rare photo of Mustafa Kemal in WW1

#15

Post by Tosun Saral » 30 Oct 2008, 21:26

On Oct 29th 2008 on the 85th Anniversary of Turkish Republic the newspaper "Hürriyet" (Freedom" publiche until now not known photo of War School Cadet Mustafa Kemal with class mates in 1902

First row sitting on the right of Mustafa Kemal :
Kazım Özalp : 3rd President of the Turkish National parlament
Army serial number: P (Inf.) 1318(1902)- 29
General of the Army : 1926, Lt. Gen.: 1922, Maj. Gen: 1921, Retired. 6.7.1927
On the left of him:
Ali Fuat Cebesoy: MP and Turkish Ambassador to Moscow
Army Serial Number: P. 1317(1901)- 28
Lt. Gen.:1923, Maj. Gen.:1917, Retired:2.12.1927

On the left of Cebesoy:
Sedat Doğruer
Army Serial Number: P.1317-30
Lt. Gen.: 1930, Maj. Gen:1926, Retired:28.9.1942

2nd Row Standing at the back of Mustafa Kemal and Ozalp:
H. Abdi Pandır
P.1317-16
Brigadier: 1922, maj. Gen. 1936, Retired:14.5.1940

Standing at the back of M.Kemal and cebesoy:
M. Hayri Tarhan
P. 1317-4
Maj. Gen. 1929, Retired: 10.12.1934

Standing at the back of Cebesoy and Doğruer
M. Nusret Başaran
Top (artillary) 1317-18
Brigadier 1935, Maj. Gen.:1937, Retired:1.9.1938

May they rest in light.
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