46th Turkish Infantry Regiment 1918

[domster]

Just to show allied intelligence was aware of 2 146th regiments here is an estimated order of battle from 16th August 1918 showing the clear distinction between the 2 units-it also shows at least 1 battalion of the turkish 146th was possibly in the northern sector at this time.

All the best
Dom.

146ths.jpg

[stevebecker]

Dom,

Yes British Intell gives one Bn at Amman and two Bn's at Maan for the Turkish 146th Regt. I would surpose the German 146th Regt also had the same?

What I find interesting is the 2 Sqn 29th Cav Regt, this was from the 23rd Div but went to the 48th Div in Feb 1918.

This regt is also shown with the 44th Div (I have no date) and as shown the 26th Cav Sqn part of the 39th Div down on the Yeman, what both as shown near Amman in Aug 1918 is unknown?

The other Cav formation the 2nd Kalfas (Caucasus) Cav Bde with the 9th and 11th Cav Regts but also shown with a Regt from the 3rd Cav Div (7th Cav Regt). This Bde was shown involved in the fighting at Amman/es Salt in May 1918

S.B

[Osman Levent]

Steve,
Here's the military picture of Ma’an (or I should say Ma’an Station where all units were deployed) during First World War;
[23. inf.div] ..... 26.11.14 / __.05.15
[hijaz exp.force] 19.01.15 / 22.01.15 (the 81., the 82. & the 130. Brigades of the 22. Infantry Division)
[mawlawi brg] .. 19.01.15 / 22.01.15 (a voluntary medical assistance unit)
[hijaz exp.force] __.02.15 / 10.05.15 (the 81., the 82. & the 130. Brigades of the 22. Infantry Division)
[mawlawi brg] .. __.02.15 / 10.05.15 (a voluntary medical assistance unit)
[62. inf.div] ..... 17.08.18 / 23.09.18

It is my belief that two Battalions of the 146th Regiment might have been sent here whilst the British Intelligence would have noticed the Turkish character of one and the German contingent of the other since the Regiment in question was a "mixed" unit. Undoubtedly sent to help to "create" the 62nd Infantry Division to control the railway; they were soon forgotten when the major British offensive of 19.09.18 began south of Nablous and had to march north along the railway all the way to Doumah north of Damascus where they had to surrender on 04.10.18.
The 2nd Caucasian Regiment was originally known as the 2nd Cavalry Division in operations on the Russian Front from 02.08.14 until 05.11.16 when they were de-commissioned and re-formed as the 2nd Caucasian Regiment since they had been much reduced in numbers. Having arrived on the Palestinian theater of operations by May, 1917; most of their constituent units was divided up between various divisions with only one Brigade left to join the fighting around Salt and Amman.

Best Regards, Osman Levend

[Tosun Saral]

The book "Birinci Dünya Harbinde Türk Harbi" p.577
"4th Army commander gave all the forces with all their HQs at Maan under the command of 2nd AC which come from Caucasus front . The decrease of units at that region gave Faisal and his forces the advantage to operate in that region. Miskal Pasha who was promoted to the rank of Mirimiran (Milis marshal) was made government official of Kerek protected his position at the region. At the same time Faisal and his forces recaptured Tafile Faisal attacked then to Katrana and Maan. In this situation the 4th Army faced two fronts: Şeria and maan Ali Fuat Bey comander of 8thAC commanded the forces at Şeria front (48th and Composite div.) At Maan -on the line from Damascus to Maan- Col. Şevket Bey was the commander. (ATASE archiv: no:4/7302,kls.3221 dos.H-102, F.1) The Commander of 4th Army offered to abondon Maan because of its defence with weak units. But The Army Group Yıldırım refused his request. Yıldırım informed 4th Army that tke 2nd AC in Maan will be reinforced with new forces coming fron North."

p.580
"While Faisal was continiung operatins at Maan other Arab forces occupied the railway between Katrani at the south of Lake Lut and Amman.

p.682
It was necessary to hold Amman two more days to save the units of 2nd AC at Katrana-Maan from enemy Kessel. The units defending Katrana-Maan were weak forces. If 48th IDiv should come to Amman not to Zerka and commander of 8th AC would took the command of all forces into his hands, it would be possible to defend Amman for 2 or 3 days. During that time the 2nd AC could save itself. At Amman English took 600 POWs. All the menpower at amman was 800. After fall of Amman the 2nd AC could not find find a way to retreat and was fall with 5000 men in British POW.

[Tosun Saral]

A new evidance of a Turkish regimental standart. Fieldmarshall Mustafa Kemal Pasha (right) and Army commander sakallı Nurettin Pasha (left) The pix is shot in 1922 after the victory over greeks. It is obvious that the regiments of Turkish National Forces had the same kind of regimental standart as the Ottoman Turkish Armed Forces.

TS's note: If any museum have such a standart in their collection they may be very proud of capturing a Turkish Regimental Standart. The other exambles are are only battalion or company banners.

[stevebecker]

Mate,

Your right, the only evidence that this flag is what the AWM said it is, was Daley and his coments in the 9th LHR war diary, that say this flag came from the 46th Regt?

No other war diary mentions this flag, either Bde, Div or Corps?

Clearly the ID is incorrect, either Daley made a mistake or he was incorrectly informed by the Turkish soldiers to hide their correct unit?

There is enough evidence to put the Daley and the AWM ID of this flag into dought, what happens form here?

Sadly not much as the AWM will not change what is written or will it?

I am coming the concussion that the flag while it could be a Bn or Company flag for any Regt could possibly come from a unit of the 46th Infantry Division and not from the 146th Turkish Regt we asume.

The 46th Div by the end of the war was a mixture of units with;

144th Regt
17th Composite Regt (3Bn/17th, 2Bn/74, 4Bn/73rd, 3Bn/75th Regts with 73rd MG Co + 178th MG Co

These mixed Bn's came from the Arab 25th Div (73, 74 and 75 Regts) formed in Palestine in 1914, and after it was disbanded in mid 1918 having serving on the Rumanian Front.

The 73rd and 75th Regt's were placed into the new 62nd Div (shown as the Amman Div) formed in July 1918 at Amman and served with the II Corps (4th Army)

While the 46th Div was part of the 8th Army Troops and was involved in the withdrawal to Damascus and was captured or destroyed near there?

All are possible units for the flag?

S.B

[Tosun Saral]

Journalist, traveller and writer Mr. Hikmet Feridun Es published a photo of a captured Turkish regimental standart exebited at the Museum in Canberra, in his article "Dost Kadar Sıcak Bir Düşman" (An Enemy warm as a friend) in Yıllar Boyu Tarih Mecmuası ( History Within many years) March 1980 p.36 to 41. The pic is not good printed. Unfortunately Mr Es dont mention the number of the regiment in his article.

[Tosun Saral]

Standart of 1st Artillery Regiment in 1905