Turkish Artillery

[nuyt]

Tosun, fantastic pics, man, you discovered a "new type" of gun!
Wonder how many were made by MKE...?

[Tosun Saral]

Dear Nuyt as an old signal officer I am proud to be at the service of artillery.
Mates,
MKEK has a request information page which I found today. I asked them about 75/35 field gun. You can ask them also it is English:

http://www.mkek.gov.tr/english/foBilgiEdinme.aspx

[CharlieC]

Osman noted in a previous post that there are a fairly large number of Turkish 75mm Krupp survivors in Australia.
I've just finished an article listing the known survivors with images of the guns where I have them. The list is at:

www.ammsbrisbane.com/articles.html?load ... ivors.html

Regards,

Charlie

[Tosun Saral]

Today I got an answer from MKEK saying that the information is sacret not to be given.

[adolpheit]

Excellent work!

Osman noted in a previous post that there are a fairly large number of Turkish 75mm Krupp survivors in Australia.
I've just finished an article listing the known survivors with images of the guns where I have them. The list is at:

http://www.ammsbrisbane.com/articles.ht ... ivors.html

Regards,

Charlie

[CharlieC]

Another dumb question....

I've just received an image of the breech on the 75mm gun at the Army Museum, Bandiana, Vic. The markings have been
picked out so they show up better than is usual. The gun at Bandiana is #616 from the 1910 order. I've meant to ask this before but the line of script above the "Fried Krupp A.G Essen" seems to be more elaborate than on the guns from the earlier (1903, 1905) orders. Does the Arabic script mean the same as that on the earlier guns?

Regards,

Charlie

616_Bandiana_5.jpg

[nuyt]

Today I got an answer from MKEK saying that the information is sacret not to be given.

I thought so, thanks anyway: Turkish pre and WW2 era military history is still classified....
There might be something to hide also: German wartime deliveries of captured French weapons, not nice in postwar settings.

There are traces however in German and other archives about arms deliveries and assistance to local production. No doubt German industries helped Turkey develop weapons including artillery. These days the Turkish military still claim the modern 155mm guns are "the first artillery pieces produced" in the country since the 1600s!

This thread already proved otherwise.

[CharlieC]

It's not only the Turkish military - Franz Kosar in his book "Artillerie im 20 Jahrhundret" makes the statement (translated)

"Even in the relatively large Turkey a lack of a suitable industrial development meant construction of artillery was not possible" p.55.

I'd really like to see Herr Kosar's explanation of the markings on the 12cm howitzer at Manilla, NSW and the 8.7cm at Camden, NSW.

Regards,

Charlie

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

I found this image of a 94mm Vickers AA gun in Turkish service.
Was this gun used by Turkey during WW2 or only postwar?

Sturm78

[Tosun Saral]

A Turkish gun exibited at the Eger Castle in Hungary. The gun was made during the reign of Sultan Mahmet III in 1569. Egri(Eger was conquered by Sultan Mehmet III in Oct.12 nd 1569
Source Balkan Günlüğü
http://www.balkangunlugu.com/v3/index.p ... tstart=285

[eppanzer]

I have found mentioned the guns were sold from Soviet Union to Turkey. The Lithuanian Army officer wrote, some West made guns and howitzers (Vickers, for example) were sold to Turkey in 1920s-1930s. It is true or false?

[CharlieC]

There are a number of examples of 7.7cm FK 96 n.A guns being used in Palestine. There is a 7.7cm FK 16 at Casino, NSW which was captured in Palestine 1918. The gun isn't in good condition but the local council has allocated funds to restore it. As far as is known it's the only surviving FK 16 in Australia captured in Palestine. It's thought to have been captured by the 3rd MG Squadron on the Nablus Road south of Jenin on 20 Sept 1918. it isn't known whether the FK 16 was operated by a German or Ottoman unit.

Regards,

Charlie

Casino_1.jpg

Casino_2_scaled.jpg

[Osman Levent]

Charlie,
The only Ottoman Units which had been deployed on the road to Nablous at a hamlet approximately thirty miles north west of Jerusalem, were the 3rd Brigade of the 57th Regiment and the 2nd Howitzer Field Battery positioned on the heights of the village for nine months to deny the British and the Australians any operation out of the Holy City. But they had to abandon their guns on the 21.09.18 during the overall offensive that started on the 19.09.18 as their positions were being encircled. It should be noted that while the 3rd Brigade was an Ottoman unit; the 2nd Howitzer Battery with their 150 mm gun was a mixed German and Ottoman company. Needless to say, all guns had been incapacitated by removing the breech-blocks before the troops withdrew towards River Jordan. I would venture to say that this piece must have belonged to the 3rd Brigade and since it had previously served in the Ukraine; it might be a captured Russian gun.
Best Regards, Osman Levend

[CharlieC]

Hi Osman,

Kevin Browning, who has been talking with the people at Casino, sends his thanks for the information on the unit that operated the FK 16 before capture.

Kevin found the following in the war diary of the Australian 3rd MG Squadron who were operating with the 10th Light Horse (all the war diaries of Australian units are available on line from the AWM website http://www.awm.gov.au - some of them are hand written and difficult to read):

"Lieut Patterson with A Sub Section was ordered (? Word is unclear) by CO 10th LH Regt to advance to the South of JENNIN and guard the NABULUS Road. He was informed he would find two troops 10 LH Regt holding the road. (This however proved to be incorrect as no troops of 10 LH Regt were holding the road at the time.) He pushed on but could not find no trace of 10 LH Troops. He however came upon about 3000 of the enemy and 4 Field Guns…."

The AWM has a photo of some of the captured war material from the Jenin action being transported. It's thought the gun in foreground is the FK 16 now at Casino.

The gun definitely is a 7.7cm calibre - it was built by the manufacturer that became Hanomag in 1917.

Regards,

Charlie

P00225.jpg

[Osman Levent]

Many thanks for the info Charlie,
But in my opinion, the number of Turkish troops seems a bit far fetched since 3,000 ± few hundred men would constitute a Division in the Ottoman Army. But at Bir an Nablah where the Brigade and the Battery were deployed; not even a Regiment was present. Furthermore; at the end of the war in Palestine, the Turkish units were so decimated that to find a Division of 1,500 was almost impossible. Add to this, the fact that almost all the Arab contingent had already deserted their units; the number in question should do without one of the naughts. It might be that the CO of the LH was referring to the troops in Nablous where two Army H/Q's and several other units were positioned.
Best Regards, Osman Levend